Chief of the Defence Staff goes all PC
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I served in the ranks for most of the seventies when any hint of 'Gayness' would be hunted down punished & ultimately dismissed from the service.
Even today, I cannot imagine in my own mind openly gay people in service, thanks to the way it was then. It somehow reminds me of the American 'Black squadrons' of the second world war in a way.
I had left the service long before the instant 'About turn' & feel it must have been forced upon them, probably by the EU thing.
I would have liked to have observed this sudden 'About turn' seeing grim faced investigators having their cases dropped on the spot! Guilty one moment, not guilty the next.
I would have liked to have seen this change in attitude first hand & I suspect the whole thing was very carefully planned with new entries coming in all the time.
The whole 'PC' thing is very 'Pick & mix' I would support some arguments, but not others.
Even today, I cannot imagine in my own mind openly gay people in service, thanks to the way it was then. It somehow reminds me of the American 'Black squadrons' of the second world war in a way.
I had left the service long before the instant 'About turn' & feel it must have been forced upon them, probably by the EU thing.
I would have liked to have observed this sudden 'About turn' seeing grim faced investigators having their cases dropped on the spot! Guilty one moment, not guilty the next.
I would have liked to have seen this change in attitude first hand & I suspect the whole thing was very carefully planned with new entries coming in all the time.
The whole 'PC' thing is very 'Pick & mix' I would support some arguments, but not others.
Once upon a time, people were allowed a sense of humour...
At some pongo fah paah event, a chap dressed up in the full comical Quality Street mess dress uniform of his Wedgiment, all pink breeches bum-freezer jacket and yellow strings, wandered casually across the front of the arena sporting a monocle and a very haughty expression like some cartoon chinless Woopert. Behind him trailed a black chap (brother officer in disguise who was in on the joke), bent double and festooned with a couple of GPMGs and several belts of ammunition. Whereupon the pretend Woopert studied the target, then turned to the black chap and announced in cut glass tones "Bearer! My gun if you please!".
Unfortunately the joke was lost on the hierarchy though...
At some pongo fah paah event, a chap dressed up in the full comical Quality Street mess dress uniform of his Wedgiment, all pink breeches bum-freezer jacket and yellow strings, wandered casually across the front of the arena sporting a monocle and a very haughty expression like some cartoon chinless Woopert. Behind him trailed a black chap (brother officer in disguise who was in on the joke), bent double and festooned with a couple of GPMGs and several belts of ammunition. Whereupon the pretend Woopert studied the target, then turned to the black chap and announced in cut glass tones "Bearer! My gun if you please!".
Unfortunately the joke was lost on the hierarchy though...
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I served in the ranks for most of the seventies when any hint of 'Gayness' would be hunted down punished & ultimately dismissed from the service.
Even today, I cannot imagine in my own mind openly gay people in service, thanks to the way it was then. It somehow reminds me of the American 'Black squadrons' of the second world war in a way.
I had left the service long before the instant 'About turn' & feel it must have been forced upon them, probably by the EU thing.
I would have liked to have observed this sudden 'About turn' seeing grim faced investigators having their cases dropped on the spot! Guilty one moment, not guilty the next.
I would have liked to have seen this change in attitude first hand & I suspect the whole thing was very carefully planned with new entries coming in all the time.
The whole 'PC' thing is very 'Pick & mix' I would support some arguments, but not others.
Even today, I cannot imagine in my own mind openly gay people in service, thanks to the way it was then. It somehow reminds me of the American 'Black squadrons' of the second world war in a way.
I had left the service long before the instant 'About turn' & feel it must have been forced upon them, probably by the EU thing.
I would have liked to have observed this sudden 'About turn' seeing grim faced investigators having their cases dropped on the spot! Guilty one moment, not guilty the next.
I would have liked to have seen this change in attitude first hand & I suspect the whole thing was very carefully planned with new entries coming in all the time.
The whole 'PC' thing is very 'Pick & mix' I would support some arguments, but not others.
I don’t mean this to sound glib, but times change for better or for worse and we can accept it and have a laugh in the mess with all and sundry or dig our heels in and slowly become angry, bitter and highly toxic. Either way, it’s happening, and I like beer 😀
That well-known villain, the late RFK, could talk the knickers off a nun and was always finding a way to wind up our Boss.
They were once at some event in the US, when RFK spotted the USMC choir, all of whom were about 7ft tall with necks like birthday cakes, immaculate and as black as black could be. Somehow he secured their agreement, then burst into song singing "Way down in Alabama where the n.....s shovel coal". He completed the verse with the choir looking stony faced and the Boss could see his career about to spiral to earth. But then came the chorus - and the choir belted it out in pure harmony before joining RFK in fits of laughter. Another point scored over the Boss by RFK, who spent the rest of the evening with his new USMC chums...
They were once at some event in the US, when RFK spotted the USMC choir, all of whom were about 7ft tall with necks like birthday cakes, immaculate and as black as black could be. Somehow he secured their agreement, then burst into song singing "Way down in Alabama where the n.....s shovel coal". He completed the verse with the choir looking stony faced and the Boss could see his career about to spiral to earth. But then came the chorus - and the choir belted it out in pure harmony before joining RFK in fits of laughter. Another point scored over the Boss by RFK, who spent the rest of the evening with his new USMC chums...
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In a nice way, nobody really cares these days. If someone is a c*ck then they are a c*ck. Their religion, sex, sexuality, race or whatever else measure by which people can be offended doesnt really matter or feature in the equation.
I don’t mean this to sound glib, but times change for better or for worse and we can accept it and have a laugh in the mess with all and sundry or dig our heels in and slowly become angry, bitter and highly toxic. Either way, it’s happening, and I like beer 😀
I don’t mean this to sound glib, but times change for better or for worse and we can accept it and have a laugh in the mess with all and sundry or dig our heels in and slowly become angry, bitter and highly toxic. Either way, it’s happening, and I like beer 😀
Times do change slowly, I remember reading orders that an airman could be put on a 'Punishment diet of one pound of bread & unlimited water for three days in a row & that was in the late seventies.
At about the same time there was a notice about guarding explosives & it said that 'If the airman is illiterate' the instructions must be carefully explained to him'.
This was late seventies & I'm not making this **** up, it's true!
Thank you, that goes without saying. I believe each of the armed forces can decide the age at which someone can be combat effective. My point is the cut off of 26. If you had a person fully qualified say on the A330 and they were 35 and wanted to join up, the 'combat effective' age barrier I would imagine be difficult to justify. All hypothetical of course.
Re Post 18 by Heights Good. I'm pleased that your experience of the Complaints Procedure has been positive - mine has not.
I was the Assisting Officer for a sqn ldr against whom a complaint had been made and it was crystal clear that the sqn ldr had, in fact, acted in the complainants best interest. At every stage the complainant rejected the findings and persisted all the way to the Ombudsman (woman).
At this point, the complainant resigned. The sqn ldr had been subjected to three years of absolute hell because of the complaint and the 'system' kept the process grinding on so as not to be accused of denying the complainant his right to due process. The complainant had been given huge amounts of leeway etc but it was my colleague who paid the price.
Old Duffer
I was the Assisting Officer for a sqn ldr against whom a complaint had been made and it was crystal clear that the sqn ldr had, in fact, acted in the complainants best interest. At every stage the complainant rejected the findings and persisted all the way to the Ombudsman (woman).
At this point, the complainant resigned. The sqn ldr had been subjected to three years of absolute hell because of the complaint and the 'system' kept the process grinding on so as not to be accused of denying the complainant his right to due process. The complainant had been given huge amounts of leeway etc but it was my colleague who paid the price.
Old Duffer
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Re Post 18 by Heights Good. I'm pleased that your experience of the Complaints Procedure has been positive - mine has not.
I was the Assisting Officer for a sqn ldr against whom a complaint had been made and it was crystal clear that the sqn ldr had, in fact, acted in the complainants best interest. At every stage the complainant rejected the findings and persisted all the way to the Ombudsman (woman).
At this point, the complainant resigned. The sqn ldr had been subjected to three years of absolute hell because of the complaint and the 'system' kept the process grinding on so as not to be accused of denying the complainant his right to due process. The complainant had been given huge amounts of leeway etc but it was my colleague who paid the price.
Old Duffer
I was the Assisting Officer for a sqn ldr against whom a complaint had been made and it was crystal clear that the sqn ldr had, in fact, acted in the complainants best interest. At every stage the complainant rejected the findings and persisted all the way to the Ombudsman (woman).
At this point, the complainant resigned. The sqn ldr had been subjected to three years of absolute hell because of the complaint and the 'system' kept the process grinding on so as not to be accused of denying the complainant his right to due process. The complainant had been given huge amounts of leeway etc but it was my colleague who paid the price.
Old Duffer
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Anyway, the stern looking woman explained she was conducting a survey and would I mind answering a couple of questions to which I gave my consent. She got out her clip board and asked me "what does LGB mean to you?" As I'd been working on the weapon aiming software I proceeded to describe laser illuminators, baskets, circular errors etc. At some point I glanced at the HR colleague, only to notice the smile on her face was very fixed and her eyes appeared to be drilling holes in my head.
Anyway, I finished my diatribe and looked at the stern faced woman for the next question, only for her to fold her clipboard away and launch into a detailed explanation of Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual people. She finished with a smug look on her face, expecting an apology until I pointed that "very good, but that's not what you asked..." and pointed out that the question was what did it mean to me.
At this point the HR colleague decided that the survey would be best conducted elsewhere and I was dismissed, never to be considered again...
We were all told to attend an 'EO' brief one afternoon. Thinking that this was about electro-optics, we duly trooped in to the lecture room.
After a few moments some humourless woman started her brief and it became clear that it was some huggy-fluffy politically-correct 'Equal Opportunities' brief....
Which didn't much impress the assembled rabble. The lecturer mentioned the term 'VEM', which apparently meant 'Visible Ethnic Minority'.....
Whereupon one of our number said "I'm an African, I just happen to be white, so WTF am I - an invisible ethnic minority?". She had no answer. Then she started to talk about some trophy for the best-achieving VEM in the RAF. Came a comment from the floor "Ah - not so much the Top Dog trophy as the Top W*g trophy then. Because that's what people will call it!".
At this stage she gave up, showed some rubbish film and left. She and her colleague never turned up again, mercifully. Presumably we were written off as non-compliant with whatever policy was being inflicted upon the RAF by the PC brigade.
As for LGBTUVWXYZ briefs.....
"Live and let live. Any questions? No? Good - end of my brief!"
After a few moments some humourless woman started her brief and it became clear that it was some huggy-fluffy politically-correct 'Equal Opportunities' brief....
Which didn't much impress the assembled rabble. The lecturer mentioned the term 'VEM', which apparently meant 'Visible Ethnic Minority'.....Whereupon one of our number said "I'm an African, I just happen to be white, so WTF am I - an invisible ethnic minority?". She had no answer. Then she started to talk about some trophy for the best-achieving VEM in the RAF. Came a comment from the floor "Ah - not so much the Top Dog trophy as the Top W*g trophy then. Because that's what people will call it!".
At this stage she gave up, showed some rubbish film and left. She and her colleague never turned up again, mercifully. Presumably we were written off as non-compliant with whatever policy was being inflicted upon the RAF by the PC brigade.
As for LGBTUVWXYZ briefs.....
"Live and let live. Any questions? No? Good - end of my brief!"
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35yo with an A330 TR can join up, with Air Tanker anyway, become a reservist & fly a Voyager for twice the salary of a regular.
Gentleman Aviator
Then she started to talk about some trophy for the best-achieving VEM in the RAF.
He was sooooo p!ssed off with the idea (white with rage would be going a touch too far!!).
"Oh great" he said "A 'Best Little Black Boy Trophy'"
Swiftly followed by: "They'll have to give it to me anyway - I'm the most senior
in the RAF!"
In the late 1970s at Coningsby my The then DWRAF paid a visit to the Phantom OCU flight line. She asked if I had any qualms about employing WRAF there, adding “that I just had to make certain that they were not given tasks beyond their physical capability”. I replied “Excuse me Ma’am, I was not aware that I should task anyone with anything beyond their capability. Anyway, I already have 2 girls working here”.
Think I've mentioned this before, but I happened to be with the well-known VEM Harrier mate when this was announced.
He was sooooo p!ssed off with the idea (white with rage would be going a touch too far!!).
"Oh great" he said "A 'Best Little Black Boy Trophy'"
Swiftly followed by: "They'll have to give it to me anyway - I'm the most senior in the RAF!"
He was sooooo p!ssed off with the idea (white with rage would be going a touch too far!!).
"Oh great" he said "A 'Best Little Black Boy Trophy'"
Swiftly followed by: "They'll have to give it to me anyway - I'm the most senior
in the RAF!""I turned white back there and it ain't a pleasant experience!"
