Falklands Air Bridge
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Isn’t the Falklands trooper one of the five out of the total of 14 that are leased to the MoD of which 9 are in full tanker fit and 5 are sub let out to commercial operators and form a surge reserve?
Isn’t the Falklands trooper one of the five out of the total of 14 that are leased to the MoD of which 9 are in full tanker fit and 5 are sub let out to commercial operators and form a surge reserve?
The infantry fighting with others or amongst themselves has been going on since we first had infantry and is hardly a new phenomenon, so less of this “where did it all go wrong?” and “what has happened to standards” clap trap.
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Ok to brawl in the NAAFI or outside local pub (cos that’s what they do) but being hosted in a five star hotel with families around is a different matter. And who on earth allowed them unlimited access to free booze, asking for trouble!
Engineers are still trained soldiers.
Engineers are still trained soldiers.
Infantry, Royal Engineers, Para's, Royal Marines, RAF Regiment, same applies to 'em all, 'teeth arms' weren't they once called? They have always done this, no matter what surroundings. I once saw some Gurkhas kick off in a very nice pub in Hampshire, and even in Bruggen we used to have the resident Rock Sqn kick off from time to time.
Not sure about military tradition, just a tedious repetition of events down through the ages.
Not sure about military tradition, just a tedious repetition of events down through the ages.
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mopardave and Heathrow Harry, I agree entirely!
RIC behaviour at MPA was often very poor indeed - except when the Ghurkas had the commitment. Smart, disciplined and very good soldiers.
I was told that one RIC bunch came back to the Deathstar after a session out in the field and caused mayhem in the NAAFI - so the very next day they were sent out for another week in the field. I never knew if it was true, but it certainly should have been!
RIC behaviour at MPA was often very poor indeed - except when the Ghurkas had the commitment. Smart, disciplined and very good soldiers.
I was told that one RIC bunch came back to the Deathstar after a session out in the field and caused mayhem in the NAAFI - so the very next day they were sent out for another week in the field. I never knew if it was true, but it certainly should have been!
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Whoever was OIC Det needs farkin with a pineapple. Putting a bunch of sappers anywhere near free booze only has one outcome if left unsupervised. It's not the boorish behavior that's so tedious, it's inflicting it on unsuspecting and undeserving members of the public who have paid good money for their own vacation of a lifetime. Watching Percy Pongo be a jackass after 2 shandies is not a pleasant vacation pastime. If OIC Det hasn't got the smart's to make some SNCO's responsible for troop conduct they don't deserve to be OIC of anything.
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Spent two glorious weeks at the Melia Tortuga in Cape Verde last November. My concern about the reporting is that they managed to get so much drink. When I was there it took ages to get served and everything comes in small plastic glasses.
With regards to delays, when we returned our Thomson flight from Sal diverted to Gran Canaria. We were originally told that they couldn’t get enough fuel at Sal, Cape Verde. The fuel is kept on a tanker moored in the sea near the airport and the pumps had broken. When we arrived in Gran Canaria the crew ran out of hours. Overnight hotel in Gran Canaria no free booze and arrived in Uk 24 hours late. Still in dispute with Thomson.
A quick check of Tripadviser shows no reports of the incident even from people who have returned as recently as the 30 March.
With regards to delays, when we returned our Thomson flight from Sal diverted to Gran Canaria. We were originally told that they couldn’t get enough fuel at Sal, Cape Verde. The fuel is kept on a tanker moored in the sea near the airport and the pumps had broken. When we arrived in Gran Canaria the crew ran out of hours. Overnight hotel in Gran Canaria no free booze and arrived in Uk 24 hours late. Still in dispute with Thomson.
A quick check of Tripadviser shows no reports of the incident even from people who have returned as recently as the 30 March.
Once had a chap who was joining our civvy organisation and he had previously served in an elite army unit. Passed all the interviews and the job was his, just the 'come and meet the team drinks'. At which after a few, he wanted to fight everybody. Consequently never joined us, which was a pity as he was an intelligent and nice bloke.
MOPARDAVE
I spent 2 years in the Falklands on an accompanied tour (and a further 2 X 4 month unaccompanied). The RIC, with the exception already mentioned, were always the root and cause of most problems. From drunkenness to theft to assault. As to their SNCOs?, all cut from the same cloth. The Officers were somewhat disconnected and, I have to say, pretty ineffectual.
They were transported in Company strength and were always subject to strict discipline in transit. However, off the leash at MPA they were a pain in the arse.
However, it must be remembered that they are not recruited for their social skills or knowledge of what fork goes with which dish. So it really should not come as any surprise that, given half a chance, they will kick off. Is that not what we actually want?
As to bad behaviour in general, you could go into any of the so called clubs at MPA on a Thursday or Friday night and see some pretty questionable behaviour from all ranks.
As to the broader question of military discipline I agree that standards have dropped. I work at a Phase 2 trg unit and, as told to me by a very senior officer not that long ago, we have to adapt to the society of today. The intake today, at all levels, suffers from a lack of mental fortitude and often struggles to cope with sustained pressure and criticism of any sort. However, they do have lots and lots of paper qualifications.....................
They were transported in Company strength and were always subject to strict discipline in transit. However, off the leash at MPA they were a pain in the arse.
However, it must be remembered that they are not recruited for their social skills or knowledge of what fork goes with which dish. So it really should not come as any surprise that, given half a chance, they will kick off. Is that not what we actually want?
As to bad behaviour in general, you could go into any of the so called clubs at MPA on a Thursday or Friday night and see some pretty questionable behaviour from all ranks.
As to the broader question of military discipline I agree that standards have dropped. I work at a Phase 2 trg unit and, as told to me by a very senior officer not that long ago, we have to adapt to the society of today. The intake today, at all levels, suffers from a lack of mental fortitude and often struggles to cope with sustained pressure and criticism of any sort. However, they do have lots and lots of paper qualifications.....................
I spent 2 years in the Falklands on an accompanied tour (and a further 2 X 4 month unaccompanied). The RIC, with the exception already mentioned, were always the root and cause of most problems. From drunkenness to theft to assault. As to their SNCOs?, all cut from the same cloth. The Officers were somewhat disconnected and, I have to say, pretty ineffectual.
They were transported in Company strength and were always subject to strict discipline in transit. However, off the leash at MPA they were a pain in the arse.
However, it must be remembered that they are not recruited for their social skills or knowledge of what fork goes with which dish. So it really should not come as any surprise that, given half a chance, they will kick off. Is that not what we actually want?
As to bad behaviour in general, you could go into any of the so called clubs at MPA on a Thursday or Friday night and see some pretty questionable behaviour from all ranks.
As to the broader question of military discipline I agree that standards have dropped. I work at a Phase 2 trg unit and, as told to me by a very senior officer not that long ago, we have to adapt to the society of today. The intake today, at all levels, suffers from a lack of mental fortitude and often struggles to cope with sustained pressure and criticism of any sort. However, they do have lots and lots of paper qualifications.....................
They were transported in Company strength and were always subject to strict discipline in transit. However, off the leash at MPA they were a pain in the arse.
However, it must be remembered that they are not recruited for their social skills or knowledge of what fork goes with which dish. So it really should not come as any surprise that, given half a chance, they will kick off. Is that not what we actually want?
As to bad behaviour in general, you could go into any of the so called clubs at MPA on a Thursday or Friday night and see some pretty questionable behaviour from all ranks.
As to the broader question of military discipline I agree that standards have dropped. I work at a Phase 2 trg unit and, as told to me by a very senior officer not that long ago, we have to adapt to the society of today. The intake today, at all levels, suffers from a lack of mental fortitude and often struggles to cope with sustained pressure and criticism of any sort. However, they do have lots and lots of paper qualifications.....................
DON T says in his third sentance that he can find no adverse comments on Tripadvisor about the incident. I would have thought, with the current penchant for claiming COM-PEN-SAYSHUN for real or invented woes, there would have been a flood. So, possibly the Press have blown up a minor incident out of proportion.
An other problem with operations like the airbridge is the lack of replacement crews if the Duty Crew run out of hours after a delay.
And there is the possibility of a weather delay with that destination!
An other problem with operations like the airbridge is the lack of replacement crews if the Duty Crew run out of hours after a delay.
And there is the possibility of a weather delay with that destination!
I was once flying a northbound VC10 from ASI back to Brize with a pax load of pongos who'd been in the field in Gaberone for quite a while.
Timing was such that a southbound passenger TriStar and a northbound TriStar freighter were due within 30 min of eachother at around our planned departure time. ASI Ops' solution was to keep us and our pax on the ground until both TriStars had gone. To add to the fun, the Duty Mover booted off one of our RAFP (who'd looked after the aircraft at Gaberone) for a 'priority passenger' of her own. I asked whether he could go on the northbound freighter, to which she replied "He can go on the Herc"...
So I suggested that we should get out of their hair and leave before the TriStars. "What? - We'd never get all your passengers through in time". "Why can't you take them direct to the aircraft from their accommodation?", I asked. "Only if you personally vouch for them", came the reply.
So a word with the truly excellent SNCO in charge of his troops. Could he ensure that they'd all be ready, sober and fit to travel first thing in the morning, so that we could get them home 3 hours earlier than ASI Ops' solution? "Yes, SAH! No problem - they won't have more than two tins each tonight and they'll be on parade for the MT sharpish - SAH!".
And lo, that's what happened! Old school SNCOs are truly worth their weight in platinum
As for our RAFP? Well, after departure I spoke to the inbound passenger TriStar and asked if he could have a word with the captain of the northbound freighter to find a seat. Which is what happened - and he actually got home ahead of us having had a very enjoyable trip on the freighter, thanks to the 216 mates.
I love it when a plan comes together!
Timing was such that a southbound passenger TriStar and a northbound TriStar freighter were due within 30 min of eachother at around our planned departure time. ASI Ops' solution was to keep us and our pax on the ground until both TriStars had gone. To add to the fun, the Duty Mover booted off one of our RAFP (who'd looked after the aircraft at Gaberone) for a 'priority passenger' of her own. I asked whether he could go on the northbound freighter, to which she replied "He can go on the Herc"...
So I suggested that we should get out of their hair and leave before the TriStars. "What? - We'd never get all your passengers through in time". "Why can't you take them direct to the aircraft from their accommodation?", I asked. "Only if you personally vouch for them", came the reply.
So a word with the truly excellent SNCO in charge of his troops. Could he ensure that they'd all be ready, sober and fit to travel first thing in the morning, so that we could get them home 3 hours earlier than ASI Ops' solution? "Yes, SAH! No problem - they won't have more than two tins each tonight and they'll be on parade for the MT sharpish - SAH!".
And lo, that's what happened! Old school SNCOs are truly worth their weight in platinum
As for our RAFP? Well, after departure I spoke to the inbound passenger TriStar and asked if he could have a word with the captain of the northbound freighter to find a seat. Which is what happened - and he actually got home ahead of us having had a very enjoyable trip on the freighter, thanks to the 216 mates.
I love it when a plan comes together!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And someone asked about the officers. Ignoring the mention of a flt Lt, we were taught to keep well clear of drinking ORs lest we got hit thus converting D&D into the more serious offence of striking an officer. Also being labelled as stupid for getting hit.
We were to say RAFP Sgt or Guard Commander sort it while standing bravely at a distance. Maybe Pongos are different, but BEagle did mention ineffectual.
We were to say RAFP Sgt or Guard Commander sort it while standing bravely at a distance. Maybe Pongos are different, but BEagle did mention ineffectual.
We were to say RAFP Sgt or Guard Commander sort it
The Bronx....
From The Independent in 1997:
A brawl between rival units of British troops stationed in the Falkland Islands left one soldier with a broken ankle, and prompted tough disciplinary action from the garrison commander, it emerged yesterday.
The battle, between 150 men from the Irish Guards and the Royal Engineers posted to the bleak military garrison known as the Death Star, ended in a "bloodbath", witnesses said.
Many casualties required medical treatment and several were taken to hospital with injuries ranging from broken noses to concussion. One soldier, who suffered a severely broken ankle, had to be flown back to the Haslar military hospital in Gosport, Hampshire, for urgent treatment.
The fight, which broke out on Christmas Day last year, but which has only just come to light, "all started as a traditional bunfight at lunch", a witness said. "But someone threw a potato and a can was thrown back. Then all hell broke loose. "There were pools of blood on the floor. The military police were summoned and went in with dogs to break it up."
Brigadier Ian Campbell, the British commander at the garrison, immediately imposed tough disciplinary measures to clamp down on violent behaviour. Limits have been placed on the opening hours of bars on the Mount Pleasant base, and weekend training exercises have been instigated. It is understood that at least one soldier was jailed for 28 days and others received shorter sentences.
Details of the incident underlined the long-standing morale problem of troops sent to the Falklands on four-month postings. Hundreds of soldiers and airmen, deprived of female company and unwilling to venture far from the mass of drab green buildings that make up the British base, often fall prey to a ghetto-mentality. Sources said petty squabbles assumed enormous significance and traditional loyalties became magnified.
The maze of bars, clubs, messes and accommodation blocks are linked by a bleak, two-and-a-half-mile, concrete-floored corridor. Accommodation Block 38 has been dubbed "The Bronx" because of its reputation for fighting and violent crime.
Senior officers freely admit their biggest headache is not maintaining a viable military deterrent to attack by Argentine forces, but how to maintain the men's morale 8,000 miles from home.
The traditional four-month posting is viewed by many troops as equivalent to a spell in prison. Pride of place often goes to "gozzomie" (goes home) calendars so that the days to their return to Britain can be marked off.
But the Ministry of Defence stressed it could not tolerate the type of "misbehaviour" seen at Mount Pleasant, which it viewed as a "very serious matter".
The battle, between 150 men from the Irish Guards and the Royal Engineers posted to the bleak military garrison known as the Death Star, ended in a "bloodbath", witnesses said.
Many casualties required medical treatment and several were taken to hospital with injuries ranging from broken noses to concussion. One soldier, who suffered a severely broken ankle, had to be flown back to the Haslar military hospital in Gosport, Hampshire, for urgent treatment.
The fight, which broke out on Christmas Day last year, but which has only just come to light, "all started as a traditional bunfight at lunch", a witness said. "But someone threw a potato and a can was thrown back. Then all hell broke loose. "There were pools of blood on the floor. The military police were summoned and went in with dogs to break it up."
Brigadier Ian Campbell, the British commander at the garrison, immediately imposed tough disciplinary measures to clamp down on violent behaviour. Limits have been placed on the opening hours of bars on the Mount Pleasant base, and weekend training exercises have been instigated. It is understood that at least one soldier was jailed for 28 days and others received shorter sentences.
Details of the incident underlined the long-standing morale problem of troops sent to the Falklands on four-month postings. Hundreds of soldiers and airmen, deprived of female company and unwilling to venture far from the mass of drab green buildings that make up the British base, often fall prey to a ghetto-mentality. Sources said petty squabbles assumed enormous significance and traditional loyalties became magnified.
The maze of bars, clubs, messes and accommodation blocks are linked by a bleak, two-and-a-half-mile, concrete-floored corridor. Accommodation Block 38 has been dubbed "The Bronx" because of its reputation for fighting and violent crime.
Senior officers freely admit their biggest headache is not maintaining a viable military deterrent to attack by Argentine forces, but how to maintain the men's morale 8,000 miles from home.
The traditional four-month posting is viewed by many troops as equivalent to a spell in prison. Pride of place often goes to "gozzomie" (goes home) calendars so that the days to their return to Britain can be marked off.
But the Ministry of Defence stressed it could not tolerate the type of "misbehaviour" seen at Mount Pleasant, which it viewed as a "very serious matter".
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Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
Was always thus.
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
Was always thus.