INCIDENT AT VALLEY
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David Taylors photos of Red 3
I fully understand the feelings of some members, but we have no knowledge of any unpublished photos and also what we have seen could well help with the inquiry, members who have studied the photos are mainly acting as amateur accident investigators, even for their own inquisitive reason, it is not disgusting to take and publish the photos, people want to know as much as possible and as soon as possible, a photographer at the edge of an airfield is not waiting for an incident, just a nice day out in the fresh air persuing their hobbies, aeroplanes and photography. Formula one is for the crashes. so I do hope the AAIB obtain some useful information from these remarkable images. please lets not castigate David Taylor.
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Snapper
I completely disagree. The photo of Red 3 parachuting to safety, whilst the hawk explodes behind him doesn’t help the public st all. All it shows is the immediate impact that killed a serviceman. Photos prior to that MAY help the AAIB in that they may show the moment of bird ingestion etc however, they offer the public nothing.
It’s not surprising that th Daily Fail publishes the shots. Credible newspapers will have no doubt said, ‘no thank you’ to the photographers offer to sell the shots. Taylor has shown very little respect for what happened here and I hope that avaiation publications turn their back on him.
It’s not surprising that th Daily Fail publishes the shots. Credible newspapers will have no doubt said, ‘no thank you’ to the photographers offer to sell the shots. Taylor has shown very little respect for what happened here and I hope that avaiation publications turn their back on him.
As a regular reader and occasional contributor to this forum for a number of years, I notice that this article has attracted a number of people who are not usually posters on here. Some of the regular contributors ( and you know who you are 
) seem to me to be unfairly targeted for their comments. The regular posters are a font of RAF knowledge and their views should be respected.
) seem to me to be unfairly targeted for their comments. The regular posters are a font of RAF knowledge and their views should be respected.
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Or maybe the Daily Mail just offered the biggest amount of cash for the images. I think that they actually may have showed some judgement with their article, if you assume this guy took images of the whole crash sequence that would mean there are worse pictures out there.
One small bit of comfort is that hopefully the exact cause of this tragic event will be worked out fairly quickly.
RIP.
One small bit of comfort is that hopefully the exact cause of this tragic event will be worked out fairly quickly.
RIP.
Whilst i personally find pictures showing impacts where people have lost their life distasteful (be they car crashes, aeroplane accidents, powerboat accidents e.g. Bluebird)., there is no denying they from a legitimate and powerful part of photojournalism.
Someone mentioned the Derry accident earlier - I personaly hate that image, not least because the knowledgeable are able to discern what the various elements are but from a journalistic viewpoint it is a image that conveys the tradgedy and terror of the moment.
Someone mentioned the Derry accident earlier - I personaly hate that image, not least because the knowledgeable are able to discern what the various elements are but from a journalistic viewpoint it is a image that conveys the tradgedy and terror of the moment.
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Sorry if this has been mentioned before (I may have missed it somewhere), but the Post at #85 shows a video.
If you watch the walk out (at 11:05 +) it appears the reporter is NOT wearing an anti-G suit. This in spite of the fact he mentions it during the video commentary.
Very sad to learn about the accident, particularly as I have just watched 'Britain's Ultimate Pilot's' on YouTube which shows, amongst other things, just how much enjoyment is given to the 'Blues' back seat riding the Hawk.
If you watch the walk out (at 11:05 +) it appears the reporter is NOT wearing an anti-G suit. This in spite of the fact he mentions it during the video commentary.
Very sad to learn about the accident, particularly as I have just watched 'Britain's Ultimate Pilot's' on YouTube which shows, amongst other things, just how much enjoyment is given to the 'Blues' back seat riding the Hawk.
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I believe the Tornado command ejection was brought about during early testing of the Aircraft, if I remember rightly they were up on an Test Flight over the North Sea and an incident occurred ( birdstrike? ) disabling the front seater , the aircraft was in a shallow descent and the rear seater stuck it talking to the pilot hoping he would start to respond until at low height he was forced to bang out leaving the poor guy to his fate. The command ejection came about from that incident. Or am I getting confused?
EAP
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It feels like people on here are upset and I can see why, I am included, but to take it out and vent the outrage bus on the photographer who in the end may help draw a conclusion to the accident and possibly prevent it again seems to me wrong.
Perhaps you should watch this and then tell me which is worst.
I completely disagree. The photo of Red 3 parachuting to safety, whilst the hawk explodes behind him doesn’t help the public st all. All it shows is the immediate impact that killed a serviceman. Photos prior to that MAY help the AAIB in that they may show the moment of bird ingestion etc however, they offer the public nothing.
It’s not surprising that th Daily Fail publishes the shots. Credible newspapers will have no doubt said, ‘no thank you’ to the photographers offer to sell the shots. Taylor has shown very little respect for what happened here and I hope that avaiation publications turn their back on him.
It’s not surprising that th Daily Fail publishes the shots. Credible newspapers will have no doubt said, ‘no thank you’ to the photographers offer to sell the shots. Taylor has shown very little respect for what happened here and I hope that avaiation publications turn their back on him.
I believe the Tornado command ejection was brought about during early testing of the Aircraft, if I remember rightly they were up on an Test Flight over the North Sea and an incident occurred ( birdstrike? ) disabling the front seater , the aircraft was in a shallow descent and the rear seater stuck it talking to the pilot hoping he would start to respond until at low height he was forced to bang out leaving the poor guy to his fate
I do not know if there was there was a similar accident involving a Tornado.
As for the general issue of images of accidents..many will have accidentally come across the really unpleasant images from the recent self drive car accident, we have all seen and no doubt will continue to see through various outlets countless replays of various high profile aviation and other accidents in the coming months and years. TBH I’m a bit uneasy at the “naming and shaming” going on in some of the previous posts...like it or not it is the world we now live in.
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Mar 2018 at 10:33.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before (I may have missed it somewhere), but the Post at #85 shows a video.
If you watch the walk out (at 11:05 +) it appears the reporter is NOT wearing an anti-G suit. This in spite of the fact he mentions it during the video commentary.
Very sad to learn about the accident, particularly as I have just watched 'Britain's Ultimate Pilot's' on YouTube which shows, amongst other things, just how much enjoyment is given to the 'Blues' back seat riding the Hawk.
If you watch the walk out (at 11:05 +) it appears the reporter is NOT wearing an anti-G suit. This in spite of the fact he mentions it during the video commentary.
Very sad to learn about the accident, particularly as I have just watched 'Britain's Ultimate Pilot's' on YouTube which shows, amongst other things, just how much enjoyment is given to the 'Blues' back seat riding the Hawk.
I saw a photo of a Lightning pilot (in the 70's) not apparently wearing G-trousers. I asked the gent in question (who had posted the photo of himself) and he said he was wearing them but underneath his flying suit.
It was a bunt to avoid an a10, something about backseater being nervy after learning of HF incident but actually sfa to do with accident.
Spent 3 happy weeks picking up and sifting through tiny little pieces of Tonka, unfortunately someone sent the sib to control "sensitive" material, that
the fun times up....
Spent 3 happy weeks picking up and sifting through tiny little pieces of Tonka, unfortunately someone sent the sib to control "sensitive" material, that
the fun times up....Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Spannerin the Werks.
See post #126.
“Q. Do Reds passengers wear g-pants?
A. They didn’t use to, but they do now. They’re the internal ones that used to be worn underneath an immersion suit, so not very bulky at all and worn under the flying coverall to remove any risk of snagging.....”
See post #126.
“Q. Do Reds passengers wear g-pants?
A. They didn’t use to, but they do now. They’re the internal ones that used to be worn underneath an immersion suit, so not very bulky at all and worn under the flying coverall to remove any risk of snagging.....”
I saw a photo of a Lightning pilot (in the 70's) not apparently wearing G-trousers. I asked the gent in question (who had posted the photo of himself) and he said he was wearing them but underneath his flying suit.
Anyone remember differently or offer a better estimate on timescale?
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I've just seen the Daily Mail photograph.
Speechless.
...............
That must be the worst, most insensitive depiction of the accident anyone could possibly publish.
I imagine my wife seeing that if I had been the engineer. My God.
Speechless.
...............
That must be the worst, most insensitive depiction of the accident anyone could possibly publish.
I imagine my wife seeing that if I had been the engineer. My God.
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Spanner splashed across about every paper at the time
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incomin...show-crash.jpg
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...or-who-6321141
Does it make it right..NO, but it's the times we sadly live in.
..
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incomin...show-crash.jpg
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...or-who-6321141
Does it make it right..NO, but it's the times we sadly live in.
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 23rd Mar 2018 at 11:32.
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Most aircrew I've met in my life are pragmatists schooled in the University of Hard Knocks.
So let's live in the real world people shall we?
By way of example, one of the off-duty Nimrod crewmates in Toronto was introduced to the unfolding events on a TV screen on his way to take The Telephone Call. That's how it happens these days.
Getting bent out of shape because photographs appear in the media pretty promptly is basically a denial of the world we live in...whether we like it or not.
So let's live in the real world people shall we?
By way of example, one of the off-duty Nimrod crewmates in Toronto was introduced to the unfolding events on a TV screen on his way to take The Telephone Call. That's how it happens these days.
Getting bent out of shape because photographs appear in the media pretty promptly is basically a denial of the world we live in...whether we like it or not.
Spot on. Like it or not it IS the world we live in.
Agree with Brian..
Over 40 years back a U.K. local rag published an image, taken by their in-house pro, of the end result of an unsuccessful ejection...that truely was a shocking image, p*****ed a lot of people off at the time and I still find the memory of it distasteful.
Given what is visible in the Valley images I’m at a loss as to why the photographer is being given such a hard time here, and as for the Mail...what do you expect?
Over 40 years back a U.K. local rag published an image, taken by their in-house pro, of the end result of an unsuccessful ejection...that truely was a shocking image, p*****ed a lot of people off at the time and I still find the memory of it distasteful.
Given what is visible in the Valley images I’m at a loss as to why the photographer is being given such a hard time here, and as for the Mail...what do you expect?
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Mar 2018 at 15:40.
Agree with Brian..
Over 40 years back a local rag published an image, taken by their in-house pro, of the end result of an unsuccessful ejection...that truely was a shocking image, p*****ed a lot of people off at the time and I still find the memory of it distasteful.
Given what is visible in the Valley images I’m at a loss as to why the photographer is being given such a hard time here, and as for the Mail...what do you expect?
Over 40 years back a local rag published an image, taken by their in-house pro, of the end result of an unsuccessful ejection...that truely was a shocking image, p*****ed a lot of people off at the time and I still find the memory of it distasteful.
Given what is visible in the Valley images I’m at a loss as to why the photographer is being given such a hard time here, and as for the Mail...what do you expect?
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I fear people are getting just a tad oversensitive about the publication of these photo's due to it being "One of our own"
I don't remember anyone getting too upset about the still and moving images of 9-11, both the planes hitting and the people leaping from the building?
Just last week I watched a Discovery documentary about plane crashes, the one shown over and over in close up HD was the plane in Asia hitting an Uber taxi on a bridge first.
Then there was the General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan shooting picture that won the 1969 Pullitzer prize during the vietnam war, perhaps the most brutally graphic photo we've ever seen.
I don't doubt that the pics could cause distress to the families, but none of the photo's were obscene or showed anything personal or up close of the the sadly deceased.
It seems we're more than happy to digest others misery and death but just not our own?
I don't remember anyone getting too upset about the still and moving images of 9-11, both the planes hitting and the people leaping from the building?
Just last week I watched a Discovery documentary about plane crashes, the one shown over and over in close up HD was the plane in Asia hitting an Uber taxi on a bridge first.
Then there was the General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan shooting picture that won the 1969 Pullitzer prize during the vietnam war, perhaps the most brutally graphic photo we've ever seen.
I don't doubt that the pics could cause distress to the families, but none of the photo's were obscene or showed anything personal or up close of the the sadly deceased.
It seems we're more than happy to digest others misery and death but just not our own?