Brexit throws Anglo-French FCAS programme into doubt - Flight

[Heathrow Harry]

• 08 March, 2018 SOURCE: FlightGlobal.com BY: Dan Thisdell
• Paris

A three-year-old Anglo-French bid to define the future of unmanned combat aircraft looks to be falling foul of Brexit, as “political and budgetary uncertainty” in London have left the launch of a demonstrator programme in doubt.
Dassault Aviation chief executive Éric Trappier says the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) programme is now just “marking time”. Presenting Dassault's 2017 financial results at its headquarters at St Cloud, Paris, Trappier said he was “disappointed” by the stalling of a programme that represented five or six years of design work in collaboration with BAE Systems in the UK.

FCAS was expected to move into a full-scale demonstrator development programme at the end of 2017, following a formal two-year feasibility study begun in November 2014 and a further 12-month study phase last year. “We wanted a contract to build a demonstrator,” Trappier says, but that has not happened.

Now, he says, attention has moved to a proposed Franco-German project that would see Dassault and Airbus design a new combat system for the 2040s, as a successor to the countries' respective Rafale and Eurofighter programmes. Details remain under discussion, but significant unmanned capabilities, perhaps as indicated by FCAS and the Dassault-led Neuron programme, are expected. While Dassault and Airbus work on the technical aspects, Trappier says the French and German governments will have to do the critical work of defining how the two countries will work together on the project. “The way in which we co-operate, that will be the most important point,” he says.

Neuron was a great success, he says, because the six countries involved were well-organised with clear goals. A sign of success, he adds, is that the aircraft proved reliable enough to make demonstration flights at air shows.
Dassault enjoyed a good year financially in 2017. Sales rose by more than a third to €4.8 billion, with delivery of a single Rafale to France and eight to Egypt, against a total of nine deliveries of the multirole type in 2016. Falcon business jet deliveries held steady last year at 49. Net income rose 27% to €489 million ($605 million). The top line, says Trappier, should be about the same for 2018.

[pr00ne]

Brexit, it just keeps on delivering...

[Bengo]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

Brexit, it just keeps on delivering...

More likely that the MoD have neither money to spare to pursue this program nor quite the political support that Anglo French cooperation once enjoyed.
N

[Bob Viking]

Brexit and currency exchange

I know it’s the ‘trendy’ thing to blame Brexit for everything that goes wrong but I have a question.

When I went to France in 2010 I remember getting 1.06€ to the £. I was in France last month and got 1.13€ to the £.

If Brexit is so bad and businesses are closing because of it why didn’t they all close in 2010?

Also, for a further example, when I moved to Canada in 2012 we got 1.56$ to the £. It’s currently at 1.80.

How exactly is Brexit killing us right now?

I have no particular axe to grind on either side of the argument but I do suspect that our media are not wholly honest with us.

BV

[golfbananajam]

sounds more like a decision by our French "colleagues" to me

[glad rag]

Originally Posted by golfbananajam

sounds more like a decision by our French "colleagues" to me

I like the French quite a lot, ok you have to get round things, but generally they are ok.

However, when it comes to aerospace, they put us to shame when it comes to safeguarding national interests and industry.

[glad rag]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

Brexit, it just keeps on delivering...

I know, great isn't it.
See my post above if you are lacking comprehension.

[Buster15]

Originally Posted by glad rag

I like the French quite a lot, ok you have to get round things, but generally they are ok.

However, when it comes to aerospace, they put us to shame when it comes to safeguarding national interests and industry.

Not just aerospace...

[Lima Juliet]

I thought the French and Germans had already declaredtheir hand on FCAS with the proposed Airbus 2-seat next gen fighter?




Would be great to replace Tornado with one of these instead of more F35s...

[Rigga]

It would have ended in a French split anyway. At least this way the French get to take the blame - Oops! credit, earlier.

[drustsonoferp]

Perhaps Brexit is now a good enough excuse to pull out of a project which seemed very nice politically, but was likely to see BAE Systems' competitive advantage in low observable technology effectively given away to Dassault for free.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Originally Posted by drustsonoferp

Perhaps Brexit is now a good enough excuse to pull out of a project which seemed very nice politically, but was likely to see BAE Systems' competitive advantage in low observable technology effectively given away to Dassault for free.

Nail, Hammer, Head! This decision has nothing to do with Brexit.

[ORAC]

The rationale for investing in building such an aircraft is that you require it for your own armed forces and/or for export potential.

I would suggest that, based on recent history, and the competition from the USA/Russia/China and domestic programmes in nations such as Japan/Korea/Turkey, the export potential is low. (And BAe is in fact investing instead in partnering in the Turkish and Japanese programmes).

With the dramatic shrinkage in the RAF over recent years and the introduction of the F-35B the UK market for a Typhoon replacement is small, if a couple of squadrons are replaced by additional F-35A/Bs or UAVs such as Taranis perhaps no more than a couple of squadrons for QRA which could be filled off the shelf from the next generation US fighters for the USAF and USN now being funded.

In such circumstances I can see the lack of interest in the MOD/Treasury for investing a new European project within the next 20-30 years, especially with more urgent needs in other parts of the defence budget.

And, let’s face it, Bae is mainly a US company these days and there are more jobs in bidding for contracts to build parts for US aircraft such as the F-35 than a European Typhoon replacement.

[unmanned_droid]

Having worked for a supplier involved with a Dassault project, my opinion is that Dassault are very sharp operators and you need to be really, really on your game, therefore, it's probably best for us not to get anymore involved.

[Heathrow Harry]

Sure - we can always buy advanced technology of the yanks......... just like the F-35.....

All our recent combat aircraft have been co-operative - you have to go back 30-40 years to the Harrier and the Buc. for a 100% UK aircraft - (and a lot of the later Harriers had US input)

We won't put the money into a European programme and we certainly can't afford our own so it's another technology scratched off the list

[Buster Hyman]

I'm sure there's a 'Commonwealth' country or two that'd jump on board. If Brexit was ever going to work, it must surely include the Commonwealth?

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry

All our recent combat aircraft have been co-operative - you have to go back 30-40 years to the Harrier and the Buc. for a 100% UK aircraft - (and a lot of the later Harriers had US input)

There was a lot of US involvement from the very early days of the Harrier/Kestrel/P.1127, so I would exclude that tbh.

Bucc is the last I would think?

[glad rag]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

There was a lot of US involvement from the very early days of the Harrier/Kestrel/P.1127, so I would exclude that tbh.

Bucc is the last I would think?

USMC more like.

[Mil-26Man]

I'm sure there's a 'Commonwealth' country or two that'd jump on board. If Brexit was ever going to work, it must surely include the Commonwealth?

Which Commonwealth country with a domestic aerospace industry the size, expertise, capacity and governmental backing as France's are you thinking of?

[Heathrow Harry]

Originally Posted by Buster Hyman

I'm sure there's a 'Commonwealth' country or two that'd jump on board. If Brexit was ever going to work, it must surely include the Commonwealth?

The British always invoke the Commonwealth when they've been shafted by either the US or Europe

In fact the "Commonwealth" hardly ever think they belong in it and tend to remember the times the UK has turned their back on them in favour of Europe or the USA

When did a major Commonwealth country last buy a British Combat Aircarft? Probably India when they bough the Gnat................