Redundant Navigators
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
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Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
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222 Posts
Laughing, because when I flew the VooDoo way up north, the life support troops only packed one of those .22 hornet survival rifles in one of our two survival packs. Hmmmmmm.....
The theory was the guy with the rifle could dispose of the other and eat him! Gasp.
The Cannucks flew from 200 miles north of us at Grand Forks, and went way way up north on our exercises. Dunno what their survival gear was like, but,ours was brutal. We often talked about bailing close to our jet wreckage and using what we could from the wreckage. We both had great down sleeping bags and other stuff, but only one rifle unless we "packed" our own, heh heh. Other biggie was a way to start a fire, so we smokers were in good shape.
Not to diminish the real navigators, but many "system operators" in the back seat were not well trained to actually "navigate". Maybe some folks that flew early Phantoms and other interceptors can comment.
Gums dons flak vest and covers....
The theory was the guy with the rifle could dispose of the other and eat him! Gasp.
The Cannucks flew from 200 miles north of us at Grand Forks, and went way way up north on our exercises. Dunno what their survival gear was like, but,ours was brutal. We often talked about bailing close to our jet wreckage and using what we could from the wreckage. We both had great down sleeping bags and other stuff, but only one rifle unless we "packed" our own, heh heh. Other biggie was a way to start a fire, so we smokers were in good shape.
Not to diminish the real navigators, but many "system operators" in the back seat were not well trained to actually "navigate". Maybe some folks that flew early Phantoms and other interceptors can comment.
Gums dons flak vest and covers....
T T N So pleased; we had an ex nav (became a driver with us in civvy st) who related tales of his 'back seating' in the F4 and how he could use his nav rule as a substitute pole to fit in the empty socket on the floor. Apparently this was quite normal, to have some fun.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Llandudno
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How sad thatNavigators are no longer with us. In my days in the fifties in Coastal, all pilots had to do a navigation and maritime course for three months on Lancaster’s at St Mawgan before going to Kinloss on Neptune’s or Shacks. There were two Navs on each trip, one qualified N and one pilot u/t Nav. After all the hard work passing the Nav part of the course, I was determined that when I got my own crew, I would do the odd leg as Navigator It was not to be as all the logs and charts on the Squadrons were checked and marked, so, even as Captain I was not allowed near their precious charts! - only to check where we were - no touching !. I am still in touch with my first Navigator, also very old , one co - pilot and one Signaller, all from my first crew. All the others have “ taken off”. How will the new jets cope with Maritime. Automatics do go u/s.
That's interesting Ormeside. Those of you who have read Fate is the Hunter (and I'm assuming it's most of you) will recall the bits where Gann goes back to keep his hand in at shooting some astro, which he also computed and plotted himself. I came to the conclusion he was probably a better navigator than I ever was, as well as the small detail of also being a highly accomplished pilot. Set against that, some pilots I have known would have had difficulty in finding their own way out to the aircraft without help!
Flight engineers are reading these comments and wondering if anyone remembers the guy who used to monitor engine temperatures and balance the CoG with fuel movements.
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I remember my Flight Engineers. All older than me, all gone. Where would we have been without them. In the Neptune Harry ———— sat on a wooden stool in the entranc to the cockpit, next to the bank of electrics. Under a flap in the floor were the fuel controls which he could operate. JB was my Engineer on 120. He had his own compartment with all the engine “Gubbins” . “ Jacko “ on 205. Never forgotten and a great support. All ex Bomber Command Lancs and unflappable. I was able to keep each one all my tours on the Squadrons. So Forsini, I still remember them, though long gone.
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Orme, and the Hastings, a REAL crew aircraft proper offices for the rear crew, "Engineer slow cut on my call"
Gums
As I recall it in the early 80’s the RAF navigators on the Phantom had all gone through some form of core navigation course (at RAF Finningley) which included the likes of Astro........so yes, they had been trained in the dark arts before progressing to mastering the enigma of the B-scope....
Not to diminish the real navigators, but many "system operators" in the back seat were not well trained to actually "navigate". Maybe some folks that flew early Phantoms and other interceptors can comment.
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Sometimes though Pontious it was “ plus three, plus two, zero boost minus two, minus four then a frantic MY POWER!! Shades of 47 At Topcliffe. Happy days!!, kind regards.
Transport to Aircraft
Now Now TTN you are getting a bit 'frosty' again after you promised to behave yourself.
A Pilot 'pretending' to be unsure of his position is really giving the Nav the chance to show his mettle,and therefore being happy=contented crew.
As for walking to the 'machine' I quite agree; it is disgraceful for a Pilot to have to wander around like this when he should be taken out in a sedan chair by the Nav and his oppo.
A Pilot 'pretending' to be unsure of his position is really giving the Nav the chance to show his mettle,and therefore being happy=contented crew.
As for walking to the 'machine' I quite agree; it is disgraceful for a Pilot to have to wander around like this when he should be taken out in a sedan chair by the Nav and his oppo.
I was once dragooned into a squadron chariot race in which I had to assist in dragging our captain (also flight commander) around a course, in company with several other "horses" (the rest of the crew). I suppose we were lucky he never thought of the sedan chair idea!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Nah, surely a Palanquin like the Pope had, carried by the Co-pilot, Nav, Eng and Siggie !
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Gums
As I recall it in the early 80’s the RAF navigators on the Phantom had all gone through some form of core navigation course (at RAF Finningley) which included the likes of Astro........so yes, they had been trained in the dark arts before progressing to mastering the enigma of the B-scope....
As I recall it in the early 80’s the RAF navigators on the Phantom had all gone through some form of core navigation course (at RAF Finningley) which included the likes of Astro........so yes, they had been trained in the dark arts before progressing to mastering the enigma of the B-scope....
If you are over the North Sea and it is morning put the Sun behind you, it is it afternoon head towards the Sun, If it is midday keep the Sun on your left. You will reach UK.
As for night flying . . .
when he should be taken out in a sedan chair by the Nav and his oppo.
Mind you, there were only two little blokes lugging me around so maybe I was outside their normal operating weight.
If you stand with your back to the wind and Low Pressure is on your left, you are in the Northern Hemisphere. [not much use near the equator of course].
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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