Why did US fighters not use cannon in WW2?
Classic example is that massive cannon on the A-10. It's designed to fire solid projectiles at extreme velocity (and extreme rate of fire) with the ability to penetrate heavy armor.
I suppose it would be possible to use an explosive round in the A-10 cannon but if it's ever been tried or even proposed I've not heard of it.
I suppose it would be possible to use an explosive round in the A-10 cannon but if it's ever been tried or even proposed I've not heard of it.
Not quite correct, the A-10's gun also fires a high-explosive round - the PGU-13/b High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) cartridge. The 14/b round is API with a depleted uranium core.
I never realised that the P-47 bubble canopy was adopted after they tested it with a Typhoon canopy
I recall seeing an interview with an A-10 pilot who got an air-to-air kill when he came across an Iraqi helicopter (I'm thinking the First Gulf War, but I could be wrong). Anyway he said something like 'I gave it a five second burst and there wasn't much left...'.
Think most current usage has been the HEI ammo, API isn't really that well suited against unarmored targets...and not many targets while running air to ground in Afghanistan is armored.
Classic example is that massive cannon on the A-10. It's designed to fire solid projectiles at extreme velocity (and extreme rate of fire) with the ability to penetrate heavy armor.
I suppose it would be possible to use an explosive round in the A-10 cannon but if it's ever been tried or even proposed I've not heard of it.
I suppose it would be possible to use an explosive round in the A-10 cannon but if it's ever been tried or even proposed I've not heard of it.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...120058399.html
https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/med...n/30mm-gau-8a/
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All those different wings cannot be good for mass production, nor for logistics/maintenance. And that was one big reason why the US pretty much standardized on machine gun armament. It greatly simplified production as well as logistics.
tdtracer said "Interesting - has the HEI ammo ever been used in combat?"
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/conc...g-types.html/2
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"All those different wings cannot be good for mass production"
true but they were evolving rapidly to meet a whole bunch of different threats - from 1938 - 1943 things moved on a very long way
true but they were evolving rapidly to meet a whole bunch of different threats - from 1938 - 1943 things moved on a very long way
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Whichever way we looked or faced there was always one threatening us, and another turning hard to engage. Our 7.62 rounds would probably just have bounced off anyway, had we even managed to hit it (because you were almost too busy looking for No.3 who was [panto time: Behind You!!)
Hmm, that told me a lot about numbers of a/c and how troops on the ground can or do react to one a/c or more than one a/c. And how many directions a person can look in at any one time..
CS
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Just found this: about fitting .50 cal Brownings to Spitfires.
An interesting paragraph:
It should be noted that compared with other aircraft weapons of the day, the performance of the Browning was rather undistinguished, especially in comparison with aircraft cannon widely used by other combating nations. The American gun was also very heavy. On the other hand, the USAAF had found it extremely reliable and simply “good enough” in air-to-air combat. This way the Browning became standard armament on American fighters – the P-51 Mustang, P-47 Thunderbolt or the F6F Hellcat, and more, with the same arrangement retained even for F-86 Sabre in post-war years.
An interesting paragraph:
It should be noted that compared with other aircraft weapons of the day, the performance of the Browning was rather undistinguished, especially in comparison with aircraft cannon widely used by other combating nations. The American gun was also very heavy. On the other hand, the USAAF had found it extremely reliable and simply “good enough” in air-to-air combat. This way the Browning became standard armament on American fighters – the P-51 Mustang, P-47 Thunderbolt or the F6F Hellcat, and more, with the same arrangement retained even for F-86 Sabre in post-war years.
Lots of good points raised here, but some interesting exceptions to the standardised 50 cal could be found. The mention of the P39 cannon doesn't convey what must have been a supply nightmare as some squadrons in the early days in New Guinea, equipped with a mixture of P39's & redirected p400's. That resulted in - 30 cal bmg in the wings, 50 cal in the nose, 20mm in the nose (p400) and 37mm in the p39. A logistics nightmare. And how about the modified field gun in the B25 (h?) On teh opposing side, The Zero packed a very interreesting licence-built 20mm Hispano that weighed much less than a 50 cal. I cleaned up one salvaged from a wreck in the sea and was impressed with its small size & light weight, part of the weight saving for the Zero. Low velocity, only 49 (I think ) rpg but very effective in the right hands, vide Saburo Sakai. Finding various often non-standard installations from both sides made for some interesting analyses.
Ted Parks description of the P39/P400 cannon - because it was mounted in the prop shaft - he said...
The 37 mm went whump whump whump -When firing the cannon,your legs straddled it,the firing of it vibrated your prostate so the whole essence of war became mildly sexual.I do not know if this was intentional.
The 20mm version fired faster and went bababababababa and titillated you in a different way.Some men enjoyed it more.I was a 37mm man myself.
The 20mm version fired faster and went bababababababa and titillated you in a different way.Some men enjoyed it more.I was a 37mm man myself.
the above quotes coming from one of Ted Parks books - either 'Nanette' or 'Angels Twenty' - cannot remember which - he flew P39/P400 ops in NG.
Last edited by longer ron; 7th Mar 2018 at 06:27.
The Zero packed a very interreesting licence-built 20mm Hispano
And yet one of the most scary / educating / informative experiences of my life was as a 16 yr old [err yes, MANY years ago] crossing a 1km wide plain, along with the other 150 lads on that ex .... when 3 x A-10s turned up.
Whichever way we looked or faced there was always one threatening us, and another turning hard to engage. Our 7.62 rounds would probably just have bounced off anyway, had we even managed to hit it (because you were almost too busy looking for No.3 who was [panto time: Behind You!!)
Hmm, that told me a lot about numbers of a/c and how troops on the ground can or do react to one a/c or more than one a/c. And how many directions a person can look in at any one time..
CS
Whichever way we looked or faced there was always one threatening us, and another turning hard to engage. Our 7.62 rounds would probably just have bounced off anyway, had we even managed to hit it (because you were almost too busy looking for No.3 who was [panto time: Behind You!!)
Hmm, that told me a lot about numbers of a/c and how troops on the ground can or do react to one a/c or more than one a/c. And how many directions a person can look in at any one time..
CS
Young and dumb (and firmly believing our "freedom of movement") I didn't take the hint of a long line of parked up cars and blew right past them just to get stopped a km further down the road by hundreds of peaceful protesters blocking off the road.
3 Swedes (2 logistics and our female chaplain) in one truck. No end of talking could get us trough but just as we were about to do a 59 point turn and head back a US convoy pulled up on our arse.
Lots more talking and hand waving took place and during that someone must of called it in and the Apaches appeared.
Eventually it took the better part of an hour to get the whole gaggle turned around and ending up with a detour back to Brčko, Čelić, Lopare and Tuzla to finally get us back on base.
Oh the memories!
WORLD WAR 2 FIGHTER GUN EFFECTIVENESS
a great treatise on the mg vs cannon debate
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/cann...ntroversy.html
a great treatise on the mg vs cannon debate
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/cann...ntroversy.html
Last edited by rigpiggy; 7th Mar 2018 at 23:19. Reason: previously posted
Thanks for the correction, Megan, I didn't have access to references at the time and the drum feed fooled me. Very impressed by the quality of steels and engineering, also the fact that it was, or appeared to be, a simple blow=back design firing from an open breech. On a different topic, and from somewhere earlier in the thread I noticed a quote from someone that an mg "should be able to be carried & fired by one man". I knew an armorer who tried the experiment, in Korea, of firing a .50 cal "from the hip", braced on sandbags, held down with all his weight. Luckily he only put three rounds in the links. First round somewhere near the target, second at 45 deg elevation, third vertically upwards, armorer flat on his back.
Anyone with information as to the nature of the problems the US had in producing the Hispano 20mm. Would have thought mass production to the necessary tolerances would have been a given for the nation.
Edited to add: I think my question will find an answer here somewhere.
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?...ge-M.-Chinn%29
Edited to add: I think my question will find an answer here somewhere.
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?...ge-M.-Chinn%29
Last edited by megan; 9th Mar 2018 at 04:25.
