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NATO, Germany and the VJTF

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NATO, Germany and the VJTF

Old 16th Feb 2018, 07:10
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NATO, Germany and the VJTF

German military short on tanks for NATO mission

The German military has secretly admitted that it can't fulfill its promises to NATO, according to documents leaked to Die Welt newspaper on Thursday.

The Bundeswehr is due to take over leadership of NATO's multinational Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (VJTF) at the start of next year, but doesn't have enough tanks, the Defense Ministry document said. Specifically, the Bundeswehr's ninth tank brigade in Münster only has nine operational Leopard 2 tanks — even though it promised to have 44 ready for the VJTF — and only three of the promised 14 Marder armored infantry vehicles.

The paper also revealed the reason for this shortfall: a lack of spare parts and the high cost and time needed to maintain the vehicles. It added that it was also lacking night-vision equipment, automatic grenade launchers, winter clothing and body armor.

The German air force is also struggling to cover its NATO duties, the document revealed. The Luftwaffe's main forces, the Eurofighter and Tornado fighter jets and its CH-53 transport helicopters, are only available for use an average of four months a year — the rest of the time the aircraft are grounded for repairs and rearmament........

Mark Galeotti, senior researcher and head of the Prague-based Center for European Security, said that "Germany's various military woes" were no secret to the rest of NATO. "For a long time, Germany has under-spent dramatically, and, let's be honest, wrapped itself in the mantle of its non-militarist foreign policy," he told DW, before adding that it had long been clear that the country hadn't been pulling its weight in the alliance.

According to the leaked document, the army would now be trying to cover its "capacity-relevant deficits out of the stocks of other units" — even though that would impact training and exercises elsewhere. But Galeotti said that tanks present a particular technical challenge that could not necessarily be met just by throwing money at the problem. "It's not just about buying the actual chunks of hardware, it's also about having precisely the spare parts, the technical infrastructure, the transporters, the refueling stations," he said. "Tanks are surprisingly temperamental for these great armored beasts of war, which is why this deficit can't quickly be made up, even if the money was available."

Given Germany's quasi-pacifist priorities (in NATO's military mission in Afghanistan, Berlin had a reputation among allies for keeping its troops out of harm's way), it is not surprising that the country should be cutting corners with tanks, Galeotti explained. "Tanks are nothing but war-fighting instruments," he said. "A soldier in a jeep can be used in humanitarian deployments in Africa, can do all kinds of things. A tank is just a tank. And it's that kind of outright military spending that is particularly where Germany has failed in the past two decades.".....
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 07:21
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Heinz Guderian must be turning in his grave.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 14:32
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You'd think the Germans were rather more over their post war military prowess phobia by now. Curiously, they actually seemed more motivated and their Forces better maintained if heavily reliant on conscripts during the cold war? Indeed, they were even persuaded to be prepared to carry Tactical nuclear weapons, via their F-104s, Tornados and Pershing 1a & b missiles!

FB
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 16:16
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The entire German u-boat fleet is also laid up. And half their Tonkas too. Blimey, what about legendary German efficiency?
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 16:38
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Will not be marching east anytime soon then, given the Polish view of war reparations. well maybe marching, if they have enough boots?
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 17:23
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I suspect a lack of investment in their armed forces to support the European project. Without getting political, if Germany doesn't dole out the cash, no one does.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 18:26
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Marine sub fleet not working

Well their navy are not having any joy either:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/enti...on/?no_cache=1
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 19:07
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Well, it's not as if the cupboard is bare:
German budget surplus highest since 1990 - BBC News
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 08:06
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why would they spend on the military?

They have no delusions of Empire or World wide domination (lesson learnt)

The Russian threat is now over 1000 km further east than in the 1980's and there are two large countries in the way

They look at the dreadful bog the US managed to get into in Iraq and Syria and, quite reasonably, think they were wise to stay out

Sure times can change - but how long do you think it would take them to refurb all the kit they have - less than a year .............. and if you think the Russians are going to be on the Oder by end 2018 you've been at the white powder again
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 08:21
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why would they spend on the military?
Hmm, because they legally committed to do so?
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 08:34
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You don't seem to know that Germany has been involved in anti-IS operations in Syria and Iraq, as well as supporting operations in Mali, for quite a few years now.

Luftwaffe A310MRTT AAR support has been widely praised not just by German fighter bomber crews but also by other nations involved in the Sandpit Wars.

They had to leave Incirlik due to EU politics and are now elsewhere in the Middle East. I'm told that they weren't even allowed off base at Incz, which must have rather hit Basil, Pop's Leather and Mr.Rolex in the pocket - although the wives would have been spared bits of sundry brass tat and grubby carpets!
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 09:13
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Hi,


What is described in the first post of this thread does not correspond with my experience (Bundeswehr and Luftwaffe) with the Germans.


It makes me wonder who this Mark Galeotti and his Center for European Security are and what they are trying to achieve.


Best regards, Transall.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 10:24
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"they legally committed to do so"

What law ORAC??
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 12:22
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It does not to be an Act Harry - they committed to be one of the Framework Natiosn for the VJTF and to maintain the nominated forces at the 24H readiness.

https://www.hertie-school.org/en/deb...tment-to-nato/
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 05:36
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Storm Clouds Over Munich

......”Europeans, who comprise the majority of Munich’s participants, offered a vague, often confused picture of how they view their security priorities.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker spoke grandly of making Europe “weltpolitikfähig,” coining a German word for making the EU a true global political player. German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel echoed Juncker’s call for a more robust European security policy, saying that “as the only vegetarian in a world of meat-eaters we will have a difficult time.”

Juncker’s remarks betrayed the difficulty of realizing that ambition. “We must emancipate ourselves, but not from NATO and not from the U.S.,” he said. From whom (or what) Europe needs to free itself and why wasn’t clear, but Juncker’s comments underscored the dilemma Europe faces when it comes to security: The region is almost entirely dependent on the United States.

After Brexit, 80 percent of NATO spending will come from non-EU members.

While Europeans have made much of recent initiatives such as a defense pact known as the Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO), they remain modest in scope. When it comes to increasing spending on defense, progress has been glacial. In Germany, where spending more on arms is particularly sensitive due to the country’s history, the government plans an annual rise of only €250 million in the coming years. That’s a pittance compared to what would be necessary to revive Germany’s battered armed forces, which are struggling to keep basic equipment, including helicopters and tanks, in operation.

The German posture, despite persistent pressure from the U.S. and some European capitals, is unlikely to substantially change. “For Berlin to really spend more, there would need to be some kind of event,” a German government adviser said, referring to some form of military attack.......
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 08:17
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Interesting articles

But "Committing to" is a long way from a legal obligation

It's like T Bliars famous "aspirations".............
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 17:38
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After Brexit, 80 percent of NATO spending will come from non-EU members.

....like a breath of spring air....
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 17:40
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
You don't seem to know that Germany has been involved in anti-IS operations in Syria and Iraq, as well as supporting operations in Mali, for quite a few years now.

Luftwaffe A310MRTT AAR support has been widely praised not just by German fighter bomber crews but also by other nations involved in the Sandpit Wars.

They had to leave Incirlik due to EU politics and are now elsewhere in the Middle East. I'm told that they weren't even allowed off base at Incz, which must have rather hit Basil, Pop's Leather and Mr.Rolex in the pocket - although the wives would have been spared bits of sundry brass tat and grubby carpets!
I would suggest you 're read the article...
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 17:53
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It’s time to reconsider the future of NATO. Living under the nuclear umbrella of other member states have softened the Germans.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 18:34
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Thank God................
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