Scared of Flying?
Having operated both FJ and RW as a navigator in the RAF the only recurring dream about anything bad happening whilst flying always involves being in a helicopter and attempting to climb out of a confined area that is criss-crossed with wires.
During my flying career, I never had any worries whatsoever about being strapped into an ejection seat and flying at 420+ kts at 100 feet (or thereabouts!) above the sea and, initially, whilst operating the 'mighty Wessex' in NI I was totally content and always looked forwards to being on the flying programme (although sharing a 'well-appointed' portacabin with 'Tommy' or 'The Dark Shadow/Sylvia’ - who could both snore for England - never filled me with glee!).
What changed was the result of watching a poorly Wessex being lifted out of Y453 by Chinook. It was only then, that despite my poor grasp of PoF, I suddenly realised that 'the big green arrow' went through the MGB which, in turn, was held to the fuselage by what appeared nothing more than three rather large bolts. After that I was always wary of any over-exuberant manoeuvring, constantly admonishing the less experienced members of the 'two-winged master race' for throwing 'Walter' too harshly around the blue skies of the Beloved Province.
Regarding spouse’s thoughts on the risks of flying (which I don't think has been discussed yet), it was only until I had been stuck behind a desk for a few years that my wife told me that when I was flying the Buccaneer she was convinced that every day I left the house it would be the last time she would see me alive, but that she never once had that feeling when I was on RW! Now I find that strange…perhaps she had just got used to idea of what my job entailed?
As for a being passenger in commercial airlines...I hate every moment of it!. Should it be 55 mins from London to Belfast or 8 hours across the pond, I am constantly as nervous as a kitten!! Unless of course I self-medicate with lashings and lashings of Sauvignon Blanc or Pinot Grigio. NB... other self-medications are available!
During my flying career, I never had any worries whatsoever about being strapped into an ejection seat and flying at 420+ kts at 100 feet (or thereabouts!) above the sea and, initially, whilst operating the 'mighty Wessex' in NI I was totally content and always looked forwards to being on the flying programme (although sharing a 'well-appointed' portacabin with 'Tommy' or 'The Dark Shadow/Sylvia’ - who could both snore for England - never filled me with glee!).
What changed was the result of watching a poorly Wessex being lifted out of Y453 by Chinook. It was only then, that despite my poor grasp of PoF, I suddenly realised that 'the big green arrow' went through the MGB which, in turn, was held to the fuselage by what appeared nothing more than three rather large bolts. After that I was always wary of any over-exuberant manoeuvring, constantly admonishing the less experienced members of the 'two-winged master race' for throwing 'Walter' too harshly around the blue skies of the Beloved Province.
Regarding spouse’s thoughts on the risks of flying (which I don't think has been discussed yet), it was only until I had been stuck behind a desk for a few years that my wife told me that when I was flying the Buccaneer she was convinced that every day I left the house it would be the last time she would see me alive, but that she never once had that feeling when I was on RW! Now I find that strange…perhaps she had just got used to idea of what my job entailed?
As for a being passenger in commercial airlines...I hate every moment of it!. Should it be 55 mins from London to Belfast or 8 hours across the pond, I am constantly as nervous as a kitten!! Unless of course I self-medicate with lashings and lashings of Sauvignon Blanc or Pinot Grigio. NB... other self-medications are available!
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My father-in-Law was RAAF and flew 49 'Ops' during WWII, including Dresden. He died young in his sixties of cancer, somewhat slowly and painfully. His fear was of what his flying had done to others and what his God would say as he entered those Heavenly gates. He viewed his flying as a reason for his early death. Whatever I encountered in my time in the RAF could never match his convictions.
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I'm not a great lover of heights and working up on the VC10 engines used to give me the willies even though I loved it, one of the most frightening times was letting myself slide off the side of the engines and drop onto the safety raiser next to the fire extinguisher housing... It got even more frightening when it was raining or when deiced as gloss paint, deciing fluid and water made the whole thing like an ice rink, top that off with having safety harnesses in stores but nowhere to actually to clip them.
1982 ish. Brize, base hangar. Was doing an airframe repair on stubwing, 16ft plus a/c on jacks. Fell off, landed on hangar floor and broke both wrists, elbo and cheekbone after doing a back-flip. Funny old thing, the staging was modified soon after? Bless the lads, they painted one off them dead men on the floor where I landed! (the GS I had with me was never found?)
I flew gliders from the age of 13, soloed at sixteen and flew at many gliding clubs around UK and at Kingsfield in Cyprus with the RAFGSA. It was whilst serving in Cyprus that I did a free-fall parachute course at Kingsfield. It had been a long time ambition to parachute but I hated it. I took off in a DH Beaver ten times but never landed in one. I finished the course because I didn’t want to bottle it.
My problems started when I resumed gliding at Kingsfield after the course. Almost every time I flew, especially in the open cockpit T21, I felt I might jump over the side and had my straps done up extra tight to ‘prevent’ it. I eventually felt so uncomfortable with this feeling that I stopped gliding all together.
As an aside, my wife and I stayed in a room near the top of the tallest hotel in Singapore. It had a balcony and when we went outside we both stood with our backs pressed firmly against the wall. I asked her why she was doing it (I knew why I was doing it) and she told me she was scared that she might throw herself over the railing, which was exactly how I felt.
I have no problems with commercial flying and have flown aeros in a JP, laid flat in the nose of a Canberra, staring straight down and have sat in the open door of Whirlwinds and Wessex but recalling being in an open cockpit T21, I still get chills.
My problems started when I resumed gliding at Kingsfield after the course. Almost every time I flew, especially in the open cockpit T21, I felt I might jump over the side and had my straps done up extra tight to ‘prevent’ it. I eventually felt so uncomfortable with this feeling that I stopped gliding all together.
As an aside, my wife and I stayed in a room near the top of the tallest hotel in Singapore. It had a balcony and when we went outside we both stood with our backs pressed firmly against the wall. I asked her why she was doing it (I knew why I was doing it) and she told me she was scared that she might throw herself over the railing, which was exactly how I felt.
I have no problems with commercial flying and have flown aeros in a JP, laid flat in the nose of a Canberra, staring straight down and have sat in the open door of Whirlwinds and Wessex but recalling being in an open cockpit T21, I still get chills.
Last edited by wub; 12th Feb 2018 at 13:36.
As a student at Valley in the early 60’s I had Tony as my instructor. Maybe his nervousness may be placed at my door, but his professionalism and instructional ability did their work. His 4.5 Bentley was always a highlight of the journey to the mess after a hectic days flying.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I think my fear of piloting stemmed from my one go in the primary glider at school. Being shot across the sports field trying to keep the wings level did it for me.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
It's interesting that this thread has digressed to dreams. After my breakdown, discussed earlier, I had a series of dreams I was flying very low and slow, among buildings. Not dangerous, since it was all so slow. Over the space of a few weeks, the aircraft progressed in reverse order through my career. After one involving the JP, they stopped. Something Freudian?
Must admit, I have the "flying under wires" type dreams. 
Sometimes they are high in the sky, you just can't win!
All very strange. I suspect it all just shows you how complicated the mind is!
OAP
Sometimes they are high in the sky, you just can't win! All very strange. I suspect it all just shows you how complicated the mind is!
OAP
Not a pilot, but on one job in PNG, we did a lot of flying in Bell 47 helicopters. The night before one flight, I dreamed that we flew over the company admin. offices and crashed. Didn't worry too much, as our planned route didn't go near them, but on the next day's flight, because of low cloud, we were forced to fly right over them. I did have a slight twinge of anxiety that my dream may have been a premonition.
Top thread with some excellent links. As an ex-squaddie, my opinion of the Basic Flying Training set-up on Jet Provosts was identical to ShyTorques; fortunately not all the QFIs were creamies or ex-V-Force though, and the good ones kindly steered me toward my first choice of Rotary. Shawbury was a different world, probably because they knew that the people they sent out to OCU and Sqn still as Plt Offs would be placed in positions of responsibility as a/c commanders much sooner than the FJ or multi folk.
Up until 3 years ago I also occasionally had the (often-vivid) dream of being in an urban or mountainous area with multiple wires and cables hemming me in overhead. However, now that I work right next to the damn things every day I find that particular dream no longer returns. Chatting to the linesmen and technicians who actually go up the poles and towers (pylons) to do the real work just reminds me how useless I am when at height without a helicopter strapped to my back.
One of my QHIs - it might've been Oldbeefer from these environs - once said that having a strong imagination is a disadvantage for helicopter pilots. A sense of realism certainly helps, but the constant projection of worst-case outcomes would be crippling. As has been shown by the admirably-brave correspondents earlier in this thread.
Oh, and wub: - I too did my parachuting at Kingsfield. Just 4 descents; the Brigadier's wife then complained about the Beaver getting airborne in fine pitch just after sunrise each day (it became too turbulent for ab-initio students after about 1000), and he had the course cancelled. A useful lesson in senior officers and their priorities
Up until 3 years ago I also occasionally had the (often-vivid) dream of being in an urban or mountainous area with multiple wires and cables hemming me in overhead. However, now that I work right next to the damn things every day I find that particular dream no longer returns. Chatting to the linesmen and technicians who actually go up the poles and towers (pylons) to do the real work just reminds me how useless I am when at height without a helicopter strapped to my back.
One of my QHIs - it might've been Oldbeefer from these environs - once said that having a strong imagination is a disadvantage for helicopter pilots. A sense of realism certainly helps, but the constant projection of worst-case outcomes would be crippling. As has been shown by the admirably-brave correspondents earlier in this thread.
Oh, and wub: - I too did my parachuting at Kingsfield. Just 4 descents; the Brigadier's wife then complained about the Beaver getting airborne in fine pitch just after sunrise each day (it became too turbulent for ab-initio students after about 1000), and he had the course cancelled. A useful lesson in senior officers and their priorities
Avoid imitations
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Thud, interesting that your opinion of RAF BFTS matches mine. You might be aware that we were at the same location, at the same time.
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1982 ish. Brize, base hangar. Was doing an airframe repair on stubwing, 16ft plus a/c on jacks. Fell off, landed on hangar floor and broke both wrists, elbo and cheekbone after doing a back-flip. Funny old thing, the staging was modified soon after? Bless the lads, they painted one off them dead men on the floor where I landed! (the GS I had with me was never found?)
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While sitting well above the ridge at SGU Portmoak in a K13 in the late 60's, I got the "suspended in the middle of a fishbowl effect. I felt like I was hovering in nothing but a void. It was quite scary until the feeling passed in a few seconds. I never experienced the problem while in the RAF, flying on ex in everything.
Later, I had the same experience in a Piper Arrow in the cruise in perfectly still air but I found I was able to rationalise it away by concentrating on the coaming and resisting the urge to look over the side.
Not long after, I became absolutely panic stricken leaving the ground in any kind of commercial aircraft at all. Becoming violently ill and with ferocious diarrhoea, the symptoms of which started up to a week before I had to fly. In those days I could usually wangle a trip to the flight deck where the fear of the aircraft breaking up almost immediately disappeared. It took several years for the fear to subside and now it has almost gone.
Severe turbulence no longer has me gripping the seat and needing to get to the head at the risk of bouncing of the ceiling.
IG
Later, I had the same experience in a Piper Arrow in the cruise in perfectly still air but I found I was able to rationalise it away by concentrating on the coaming and resisting the urge to look over the side.
Not long after, I became absolutely panic stricken leaving the ground in any kind of commercial aircraft at all. Becoming violently ill and with ferocious diarrhoea, the symptoms of which started up to a week before I had to fly. In those days I could usually wangle a trip to the flight deck where the fear of the aircraft breaking up almost immediately disappeared. It took several years for the fear to subside and now it has almost gone.
Severe turbulence no longer has me gripping the seat and needing to get to the head at the risk of bouncing of the ceiling.
IG
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Haven't read all the responses in this thread but the RAF had a 'treatment' programme for pilots with flying phobias - at least in the early 70s. My understanding was that once a pilot 'fessed up - presumably at medical time, they were assessed by a clinical psychologist. After that they would attend CFS Rissy where the Flying Doc (Gordon Smith at the time) would gradually expose them to the aspect of flight that caused the problem. This was all done at Standards Flt (not exam wing) where there was a constant through-put of refresher QFI training going on. The two JP standards QFIs flew with them also as I recall. It wasn't talked about much so I suppose most waterfront QFIs and students assumed they were there for refresher training. I spoke to a few that were from F4, Lighting & Herc I think. Problems ranged from flying over water to high altitude. Gordon died in a Meteor accident a few years later - I don't think he was replaced at Rissy so maybe the programme was canned?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
There was a Shak pilot in its last couple of years who grounded himself because he was afraid to fly it any more. They sen him down to see a senior psychiatrist and he took his logbook with and showed him the number of Exemgencies and Maydays’ in it during the previous 6 months. The reported psychiatric assessment was that he was totally sane - and anyone still willingly flying the Shak was mad.
IIRC he got a posting to either the VC-10 or Tristar fleet.
IIRC he got a posting to either the VC-10 or Tristar fleet.
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Also not a pilot. I am terrified of heights yet am absolutely fine in airliners and used to love flying in light aircraft; I did a bit of gliding way back and was perfectly happy doing tight turns in thermals. However in recent years I've become distinctly uncomfortable with any kind of steep turn.
I can only assume the fear is a result of not flying much recently combined with witnessing several airshow accidents that involved a stall. Also reading too many accident reports I dare say...
I can only assume the fear is a result of not flying much recently combined with witnessing several airshow accidents that involved a stall. Also reading too many accident reports I dare say...
Flying has never been an issue. But then I haven't done much of anything that could be considered 'interesting'. My worst experience was trying to maintain formation on an aircraft being flown by the unit CO - it could all end if I get it wrong.
For me, if I am taking a risk and it's only exposing myself to that risk, I'm ok, but I'm totally different if I'm exposing anyone else to the same risk. Responsibility I suppose.
As I've got older I've developed some 'knowledge induced' vertigo. I also have become fearful of overbalancing and falling down escalators when I get on them.
For me, if I am taking a risk and it's only exposing myself to that risk, I'm ok, but I'm totally different if I'm exposing anyone else to the same risk. Responsibility I suppose.
As I've got older I've developed some 'knowledge induced' vertigo. I also have become fearful of overbalancing and falling down escalators when I get on them.
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MoparDave, my old job also required us to work at heights above flowing water, and it was never a thing that worried me. Also, I was quite happy to work high on a ladder or in a harness dangling off a bridge. However, with age, I've developed what seems to me a quite rational fear of working on high ladders. I suspect it's because I'm aware that my balance, reaction time and coordination are probably not what they were.
I think it is correct as you age you develop reason lol..
Many times when civilians know you were an aviator you get questions so I developed standard answers like ...
Q. What was the most exciting moment of your career?
A. Payday.
Q. What was your most dangerous moment?
A. Crossing the tarmac.
Q. Why don't you wear a wedding ring?
A. I'm scared it will rip my finger if I have to exit using the slides.
Q. During T.O. what are you thinking?
A. How's the stock market.
Of course this was all false bravado...
I also get scared looking over the balcony but never from an aircraft.
I also dream about flying between buildings and cables.
I thought I was the only one and never divulged this so it gives me great consolation I'm not alone.
Thanks to all who had the guts to respond to their fears...
Q. What was the most exciting moment of your career?
A. Payday.
Q. What was your most dangerous moment?
A. Crossing the tarmac.
Q. Why don't you wear a wedding ring?
A. I'm scared it will rip my finger if I have to exit using the slides.
Q. During T.O. what are you thinking?
A. How's the stock market.
Of course this was all false bravado...
I also get scared looking over the balcony but never from an aircraft.
I also dream about flying between buildings and cables.
I thought I was the only one and never divulged this so it gives me great consolation I'm not alone.
Thanks to all who had the guts to respond to their fears...
Last edited by Davita; 12th Feb 2018 at 13:21.
