Fancy rejoining....
I was reading about XH558's final years and the captain was flying her as his secondary duty, having previously been a Vulcan QFI before moving over to the Victor.
So, is that a secondary duty?
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Careful study of the new beta website for the Service
https://raf-beta-public.org
both at senior commander level and at station commander level makes one point crystal clear.
To be promoted to any rank above Wing Commander a good university degree and preferably a masters degree is required.
There are currently only two 4 star appointments the current CDS and the current CAS. I suspect that when the CDS retires, there will be only one ACM.
The RAF Board comprises the CAS, three 3 star and three 2 star officers and two civilians.
Station Commanders with good academic qualifications appear to have been fast tracked to the rank of Group Captain. One such example being the O.C. Valley, whom after University took a short service commission, which was converted to a permanent commission in 2002 in the rank of FLT Lt and eleven years later was promoted to Group Captain, gathering a DSO along the way.
https://raf-beta-public.org/our-orga...ns/raf-valley/
https://raf-beta-public.org
both at senior commander level and at station commander level makes one point crystal clear.
To be promoted to any rank above Wing Commander a good university degree and preferably a masters degree is required.
There are currently only two 4 star appointments the current CDS and the current CAS. I suspect that when the CDS retires, there will be only one ACM.
The RAF Board comprises the CAS, three 3 star and three 2 star officers and two civilians.
Station Commanders with good academic qualifications appear to have been fast tracked to the rank of Group Captain. One such example being the O.C. Valley, whom after University took a short service commission, which was converted to a permanent commission in 2002 in the rank of FLT Lt and eleven years later was promoted to Group Captain, gathering a DSO along the way.
https://raf-beta-public.org/our-orga...ns/raf-valley/
Hi Dan - I hear what you say! I think I know who to whom you refer too!
It took 3 x consecutive Spec Recs before I finally made Spec Aircrew Sqn Ldr - and I'd always thought that a Spec Rec meant 'to be promoted on next available list'. But there was an element of karma - once I'd been promoted I found that I was senior to all the squadron Flt Cdrs in the Air Force List.
Apart from having been volunteered to produce the station magazine, the only secondary duties I ever had were for the direct benefit of others, not for some 1369 brown-nosing promotion nonsense.
It took 3 x consecutive Spec Recs before I finally made Spec Aircrew Sqn Ldr - and I'd always thought that a Spec Rec meant 'to be promoted on next available list'. But there was an element of karma - once I'd been promoted I found that I was senior to all the squadron Flt Cdrs in the Air Force List.
Apart from having been volunteered to produce the station magazine, the only secondary duties I ever had were for the direct benefit of others, not for some 1369 brown-nosing promotion nonsense.
This (according to my 2nd RO) was deemed as 'self-improvement/education' and could not be accepted as a secondary duty, even though I was working for an air ambulance charity. I know its a while ago now, but I don't see how the achievement of any additional, non-service, type could be seen as anything other than a hobby? Perhaps their RO was also a 'Jolly' commander.
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Rejoin...are you mad? I only left in November.
I'm just back from a 7 week holiday, booked another 5 weeks in September/October, and a top-up week in the gap between as well.
There's no time in my year for going back to work.
I'm just back from a 7 week holiday, booked another 5 weeks in September/October, and a top-up week in the gap between as well.
There's no time in my year for going back to work.
I know its a while ago now, but I don't see how the achievement of any additional, non-service, type could be seen as anything other than a hobby?
And that's the scary thing. More and more, unworthy SOs are writing reports and running promotion boards, with the result that unworthy candidates often prosper. This is what worries me most about the future, far more than funding, equipment, pension or even having to go sausage-side...
Careful study of the new beta website for the Service
https://raf-beta-public.org
both at senior commander level and at station commander level makes one point crystal clear.
To be promoted to any rank above Wing Commander a good university degree and preferably a masters degree is required.
There are currently only two 4 star appointments the current CDS and the current CAS. I suspect that when the CDS retires, there will be only one ACM.
The RAF Board comprises the CAS, three 3 star and three 2 star officers and two civilians.
Station Commanders with good academic qualifications appear to have been fast tracked to the rank of Group Captain. One such example being the O.C. Valley, whom after University took a short service commission, which was converted to a permanent commission in 2002 in the rank of FLT Lt and eleven years later was promoted to Group Captain, gathering a DSO along the way.
https://raf-beta-public.org/our-orga...ns/raf-valley/
https://raf-beta-public.org
both at senior commander level and at station commander level makes one point crystal clear.
To be promoted to any rank above Wing Commander a good university degree and preferably a masters degree is required.
There are currently only two 4 star appointments the current CDS and the current CAS. I suspect that when the CDS retires, there will be only one ACM.
The RAF Board comprises the CAS, three 3 star and three 2 star officers and two civilians.
Station Commanders with good academic qualifications appear to have been fast tracked to the rank of Group Captain. One such example being the O.C. Valley, whom after University took a short service commission, which was converted to a permanent commission in 2002 in the rank of FLT Lt and eleven years later was promoted to Group Captain, gathering a DSO along the way.
https://raf-beta-public.org/our-orga...ns/raf-valley/
However, I do recall - and may have it wrong or things may have changed since I first heard this from an Army Educator chum - the Army were thinking making languages and Master’s pre-requisites for promotion either to or above Major. As I say, that may have changed, but I think it’s a better approach to generating an intellectually rigorous Officer cadre than a year of playing the pink at Shrivenham.
And that's the scary thing. More and more, unworthy SOs are writing reports and running promotion boards, with the result that unworthy candidates often prosper. This is what worries me most about the future, far more than funding, equipment, pension or even having to go sausage-side...
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Melchett01, what got me thinking about this is the time currently taken to train pilots to fly the current front line fleet.
https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2015/...and-raf-pilot/
University graduates who join at say 22 and then spend 4, and in the case of the Typhoon, 5 years, getting trained up to operational standards, which takes them to age 26 or 27. If they are then required to do two tours as a Flt Lt, followed by two tours as a S/L, before promotion to W/C. They are going to be in their mid 40's before they achieve G/C.
I think pilots will be only able to reach the upper echelons if they have accelerated promotion at some point in their career.
Maybe one answer is (as is the case in the Police Service and Civil Service) fast track promotion for those with requisite skills and qualifications. However given the very high cost of training pilots to fly, that investment will be hard to justify without at least three flying tours, which means the acceleration will have to come at a later point in their career.
https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2015/...and-raf-pilot/
University graduates who join at say 22 and then spend 4, and in the case of the Typhoon, 5 years, getting trained up to operational standards, which takes them to age 26 or 27. If they are then required to do two tours as a Flt Lt, followed by two tours as a S/L, before promotion to W/C. They are going to be in their mid 40's before they achieve G/C.
I think pilots will be only able to reach the upper echelons if they have accelerated promotion at some point in their career.
Maybe one answer is (as is the case in the Police Service and Civil Service) fast track promotion for those with requisite skills and qualifications. However given the very high cost of training pilots to fly, that investment will be hard to justify without at least three flying tours, which means the acceleration will have to come at a later point in their career.
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Melchett01, what got me thinking about this is the time currently taken to train pilots to fly the current front line fleet.
https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2015/...and-raf-pilot/
University graduates who join at say 22 and then spend 4, and in the case of the Typhoon, 5 years, getting trained up to operational standards, which takes them to age 26 or 27. .
https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2015/...and-raf-pilot/
University graduates who join at say 22 and then spend 4, and in the case of the Typhoon, 5 years, getting trained up to operational standards, which takes them to age 26 or 27. .
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dash2, that was my understanding too, but I did not want to be shot down in flames,
To illustrate the point I am endeavouring to make, let me draw attention to the career time lime of H.A. Merriman AFC & Bar. A very distinguished pilot.
My Life With Hawker Aircraft
He graduated from Cranwell on 1 August 1951. He was an AVM on 1 January 1981.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/4665
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...supplement/821
To achieve that he was fast tracked to S/L on 1 January 1959 (Only 8 years 5 months after graduating).
No Flying Branch officer, whichever entry route he/she selected, could reach the rank of S/L on or before the age of 30 in the modern Service. Roger Cruickshank DFC, achieved it last year just before his 35th birthday.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Cruickshank
To illustrate the point I am endeavouring to make, let me draw attention to the career time lime of H.A. Merriman AFC & Bar. A very distinguished pilot.
My Life With Hawker Aircraft
He graduated from Cranwell on 1 August 1951. He was an AVM on 1 January 1981.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/4665
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...supplement/821
To achieve that he was fast tracked to S/L on 1 January 1959 (Only 8 years 5 months after graduating).
No Flying Branch officer, whichever entry route he/she selected, could reach the rank of S/L on or before the age of 30 in the modern Service. Roger Cruickshank DFC, achieved it last year just before his 35th birthday.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Cruickshank
Regarding the comment about needed a university degree to progress past wg cdr, I believe CAS joined straight from school so he has no first degree. His MA comes from staff college where it is available to all who want to do the extra work.
Beagle, you might have been the oldest flt cdr on promotion, but you would not have been the most senior - seniority comes from date of advancement not from age (cue Michael Caine and Stanley Baker’s exchange in Zulu!)
Beagle, you might have been the oldest flt cdr on promotion, but you would not have been the most senior - seniority comes from date of advancement not from age (cue Michael Caine and Stanley Baker’s exchange in Zulu!)
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Biggish article about it in Flypast or Aeroplane.
From what I see coming through the OCU at the moment, most Uni grads are 30 before they start their first Typhoon frontline tour. Disappointing!
A couple of years of holding pales into insignificance these days when average career lengths will be 39 years - yes, that’s 2057 when there might not even be much AVTUR left!
LJ
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Red Line Entry everyone goes to University these days. Sir Peter Squire pushed hard for the old style Cranwell 3 year course to be recognised as a University degree, but the academics would have none of it.
It is not officer training which takes the time and costs a fortune, but flying training to the standard required to fly single seat fast jets. The sophisticated computer systems are so complex I doubt few without considerable training could readily understand and handle them. The Harrier used by the RAF in the Falklands didn't even have radar.
My son-in-law graduated with a 4 year aeronautics degree. He was in the fortunate position that he didm't have to worry about career choices or income stream and his father wanted him to select a flying career, a view I shared. But as one of the snow drop generation he went into investment banking. In retrospect I would find it hard to question his choice,
It is not officer training which takes the time and costs a fortune, but flying training to the standard required to fly single seat fast jets. The sophisticated computer systems are so complex I doubt few without considerable training could readily understand and handle them. The Harrier used by the RAF in the Falklands didn't even have radar.
My son-in-law graduated with a 4 year aeronautics degree. He was in the fortunate position that he didm't have to worry about career choices or income stream and his father wanted him to select a flying career, a view I shared. But as one of the snow drop generation he went into investment banking. In retrospect I would find it hard to question his choice,
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LJ, I’m afraid that you’re wrong. It would be awesome to see younger pilots coming through the OPCON but most of them are around 30 and have held for significant periods.
Dash 2
Rough numbers
IOT - 24 weeks
EFT - 20 weeks
FJLIN - 4 weeks
BFJT - 40 weeks
AJT - 52 weeks
Normal holds amount to about 2 years in total. Total time to OpCon is around 4-5 years. So unless the OpCon is 3 years long I can’t see how a 21 or 22 year old graduate is taking 8-9 years to go from zero to hero. Or are you rounding up 27 to “around 30”?
Rough numbers
IOT - 24 weeks
EFT - 20 weeks
FJLIN - 4 weeks
BFJT - 40 weeks
AJT - 52 weeks
Normal holds amount to about 2 years in total. Total time to OpCon is around 4-5 years. So unless the OpCon is 3 years long I can’t see how a 21 or 22 year old graduate is taking 8-9 years to go from zero to hero. Or are you rounding up 27 to “around 30”?