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Fancy rejoining....

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Fancy rejoining....

Old 3rd Feb 2018, 10:07
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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BEagle

I obviously can’t guarantee anything. However, as long as we have FL FJs we will need a training system. And as long as we need a training system we will need QFIs. And until hell freezes over, FJ training will be at Valley.

There is never a stampede of volunteers making their way to Valley. One volunteer is better than ten pressed men, so they say. As one of the rare few who like the place it’s a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I should also add that it’s a buyers market right now. Individuals have far better bargaining power than they have ever enjoyed previously. The RAF have actually wisened up to that and I am seeing a far more pragmatic approach from Manning than I have ever seen before.

Remember, as always, this is just from my narrow, FJ centric view. I will not pretend to know anything about other branches.

BV
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 10:18
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Fully agreee with BV. I am entering my 30th year and am currently in an aircrew trg role, and still loving every minute of it. Yes money talks etc, but there is more to life than that. It’s just seems to be that ‘it was awful so I left’ brigade can’t imagine why anyone else could continue to enjoy a career when they couldn’t. When BV states he is happy the next reply is along the lines of ‘yes, but how long will that last/how can you guarantee it?’ Whist change is inevitable and human beings generally don’t like change, (not what it used to be when I joined!) it is still bloody good fun and we get to do stuff that civvies can’t even come close to with the banter and comradeship that is unsurpassed outside. As always IMHO. Fireaxe.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 11:17
  #63 (permalink)  

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I’ve not noticed scorn being poured on anyone staying in. In my case, the buggeration factor got to the point where I had to choose between the RAF and my family. I watched others in exactly the same situation as myself be given stability and their prime choice postings. In almost two decades of service I never got the choice. The more effort I put in and the more Aviation qualifications I gained, the more I was used to fill short term, very short notice posts, to the benefit of others and to the detriment of my family. I expected any amount of flexibility on my part, my family had no choice. When I was posted to one end of the UK and my family were required to move in the opposite direction (alleged nationwide MQ shortage), I knew it was time to reconsider because myself and the RAF no longer had a reasonable working relationship. My decision to leave had absolutely nothing to do with money.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 11:29
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Quite a lot of negativity on this thread, which frankly is hardly surprising.
To redress that a little, I was forced to leave in Sep 17 (aged 56 and 7/12). Now 57, and so less than 3 years to 60th, I'd not only go back in tomorrow but have actually volunteered to fill an OOA (Op PRAISER) vacancy arising this year.

Hurry up desky: as the EU would say "the clock is ticking".

Regards
Batco
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 12:21
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle
BV, how is it that are you able to guarantee that you won't be posted back to front line, deployable operations? Or posted to El Adem-with-grass to fly the F-35B, for example?

The way I read them they were only really offering about a 3 year contract as a short term fix to a shortish term problem, do you think they would put anyone onto the F35
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 12:48
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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BV, I must also be weird as I enjoyed my student times at Valley, both on the Gnat/Hunter when it could take an hour even to reach Bangor over the only bridge - and later on the Hawk. Druidvision TV wasn't great though.

Now that there's a good road to the mainland and the A55 is mostly dual carriageway, Valley is hardly as remote as once it was. So I can see the attraction of a more-or-less 0800-1700 day flying Hawks and living where a 4-bed house in Bryngwran can cost less than a 2-bed semi in the Brize area!

I'm surprised that it's quite such an employee's market these days though. Have the days of "You've been doing that job for too long - time for you to move on" really gone?
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 13:02
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
The way I read them they were only really offering about a 3 year contract as a short term fix to a shortish term problem, do you think they would put anyone onto the F35
No, but they might quick-refresh a QFI BV replacement for Valley, and post BV to F-35?

CG
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 13:17
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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BEagle

I’ll let you know if/when they move me!

I don’t know why I try so hard to convince people Valley is good. The less people want to go there, the more likely I can stay.

Oh, and the A55 is entirely dual carriageway (save for the length of Brittania Bridge).

CG.

Not likely. Have you seen my flying?!

BV
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 14:41
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
I’ll let you know if/when they move me!

I don’t know why I try so hard to convince people Valley is good. The less people want to go there, the more likely I can stay.

Oh, and the A55 is entirely dual carriageway (save for the length of Brittania Bridge).

CG.

Not likely. Have you seen my flying?!

BV
I suppose that's one way to ensure you get to stay put. Clever!
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 19:36
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I am registering a trend of potential aircrew volunteer activity not reflected by ground crew.
I wonder why that might be?
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 12:14
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I cannot see why we do not have an RAF reserve that includes an air element as the US has and that could be used to take up some of the slack, that way when they leave they could commit to XYZ hours per year to keep them current.



..

Last edited by NutLoose; 4th Feb 2018 at 14:24.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 12:19
  #72 (permalink)  

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Nutloose, don't be silly. That is far too logical.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 14:21
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry a momentary relapse... I will try to do better.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 15:26
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
I cannot see why we do not have an RAF reserve that includes an air element as the US has and that could be used to take up some of the slack, that way when they leave they could commit to XYZ hours per year to keep them current.

..
You wont get many takers. As long as the airlines are offering 500-700 GBP a day for non-standby tasking and cancelled leave days, why would people want to come back in whilst MoD infra is literally falling down around their ears?

Plus, with most LH and SH pilots now flying 750+ hours per year of their 900 EASA limit, it doesnt leave much flex for CT, checks and then productive service... I think a model whereby the ammortised cost of a service person (pension,medical, CCS, accommodation) is rolled into a civ salary, you may get people more interested in the role. Until then, you are not going to retain with the Saudis offering 125K+ (Tax free) for FJ QFI, and the shorthaul airlines offering not much less (albeit pre taxed) after 4 years as a skipper on a 320/737 to live in not the arse end of Wales. Many airline pilots are now regularly taking between 60 to 80% contracts, I dont suspect there will be much interest in free time being taken up by signing up for reservist T+C's.

No stress, no admin wing bollotics, no CCS/fitness test/email bollockings for someone elses cock up, no constant erosion of T+C's and potential changing of pensions goalposts in the future. No turn the training pipeline on max, then make 150 pilots you have worked your guts for get made redundant. Until the MoD wake up to the 25% pay rise that the civilian aviation market has received in the past 10 years, things will not change.

I think a hard look at 70/80/90% contracts would be of value, rather than lose someone and gain them back as a reservist, why not keep them on a part time contract basis?

Those that are leaving to take desk jobs outside are typically living south of Brum, Bristol (ABW) or the smog. The commute to the North/Lincolnshire gap and the fact most leave as they dont want to set foot in an aircraft again will rule these chaps out as well.

I think the comments above are succinct in pointing out that peeps should be happy with their own lot, pride in service, love of what they do, which should be a primary driver of anyones decision. But the flip side of that is no-one should be criticized for leaving as a result of falling short of AFPS 75 Grandfather rights and deciding that loyalty is a 2 way highway. I personally have loved my service and hope to continue to do so, however, I think most who will have served in the past decade/15 years will have enough fill of the military experience (particularly the more punchy stuff) to be fulfilled for a very long time; I suspect this is the biggest "soft" reason we now have for an issue with retention and one that will be exceptionally difficult to solve.

Last edited by VinRouge; 4th Feb 2018 at 16:13.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 16:22
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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I cannot argue against that, the bullet proof service that was once promised dissapeared with the emergence of forced redundancies and the targeting of some individuals approaching pension age, at that point it simply became another job without the "protection" it previously had. As far as I was concerned a 9, 12, 22 year contract in my eyes was just that, a contract between two parties cast in stone, from our point of view terminating of that early often proved difficult or impossible, the way it is now it appears the UK PLC have thrown that in the bin and you can be gone on a whim.

Silly thing was before I left I told the then AOC that retention is going to be your biggest problem and the time is coming when you will regret getting rid of people.... I do hope he is reading this, because he did not believe me.


Back to would you rejoin... Allowing for health, 10-15 years ago possibly yes, now..... They couldn't afford me, nor give me any incentive to do so, financial or otherwise, as far as I am concerned my skill set is far greater now than an RAF engineering officer and I should imagine the same goes for any ex RAF engineers now licenced.

Vin, a lot of the positions are for crewmen, not a lot of civi calling for them.


RAF engineering training as good as it is, constantly gets dumbed down, to the point it is today, it is fine for a narrow targeted product, but out in the real world, the wider skills are no longer there, and you don't know how much it pains me to say that.


..

Last edited by NutLoose; 5th Feb 2018 at 08:35.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 16:37
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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I believe that the RAF are trying to set up rearcrew aircrew reserves at RAF Waddington (funny old thing, it's not all about FJ pilots).
It's been 'setting up' for a while and doesn't seem to be gathering much traction for whatever reasons. I think it's a sqn ldr blanket stacker who is running with it...
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 17:22
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Reserve Aircrew?

622 Sqn has been going for a few years providing front and rear crew trash-hauler expertise. 606 Sqn used to have Crewmen, but I think the only ex-aircrew are doing ops type jobs. 602 Sqn’s “Lincoln Flight” is recruiting front and rear crew for flying duties. Oh, and the next Typhoon Sqns will have a reserve element to them - they have to as the MOD has told them to, so I am told. Also, 600 Sqn has ex-aircrew doing ops type roles - one, an ex-Jag QWI helped smooth the way for the F35 visit to RIAT a few years back. Obviously, there are plenty of reserve aircrew flying the Tutor at the weekend for Air Cadet AEFs.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 17:49
  #78 (permalink)  
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I had a reserve role for 9 years after retiring from regular service. The essential difference was control of my programme. I had a forward plan of events. I would then add my own plans to the calendar. Barring emergencies my diary was fixed. Control of ones own activities is an essential for a work/life balance.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 21:44
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Fancy rejoining?
Just about bored enough to do something that stupid - if they were stupid enough to take me
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 22:02
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
I cannot argue against that, the bullet proof service that was once promised dissapeared with the emergency of forced redundancies and the targeting of some individuals approaching pension age, at that point it simply became another job without the "protection" it previously had....

...Back to would you rejoin..... They couldn't afford me, nor give me any incentive to do so, finacial or otherwise, as far as I am concerned my skill set is far greater now than an RAF engineering officer and I should imagine the same goes for any ex RAF engineers now licenced.

....RAF engineering training as good as it is, constantly gets dumbed down, to the point it is today, it is fine for a narrow targeted product, but out in the real world, the wider skills are no longer there, and you don't know how much it pains me to say that...
Totally agreed - and that is probably why my trend comment is true too. Of the ex-RAF LAEs I know none would go back and be a lackey again. The freedom of maintaining aircraft is so much easier than the military way of doing things, and safety and job security is better assured too.

However, due to the low standard and low numbers of maintenance staff even now leaving the armed forces, lots of civil aviation academies and colleges are now taking up the slack and potentially excluding future RAF maintainers from touching aircraft when they leave!

If that happens, aircraft trades in the armed forces would potentially be 'dead' trades, killed off by ignorance and indifference by MOD.
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