Fancy rejoining....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
EE, I know of a couple of barters. Think it only worked for one tour. Sqn ldr wanted Nimrod; system wanted an SO. He got one flying tour. Another Flt Lt wanted back to C130. He was refused an OCU but a mate agreed OJT and system allowed it on caveat pass or posting.
1980 I returned to the fold in April 80 and was posted to Binbrook in Oct as OC Accounts. I was met on arrival on the Sunday evening by Mike Craggs, my predecessor, to be told I was taking over the account on the Monday morning, then starting a summary of evidence on some guy who (allegedly) stole the CO's staff car to go and see his girlfriend, I was SDO the following weekend, oh, and O I/c Guard of Honour.. secondary duties - bah humbug
Last edited by Wander00; 9th Feb 2018 at 13:15. Reason: Digit
Eventually I was badgered in to being PMC - they were desperate for a volunteer and my Stn Cdr trotted out the old ‘half point board’ line. I lasted precisely one dining in night and did no Mess meetings before being selected for promotion and took great delight in informing the Stn Cdr he once again needed a new PMC. He was fuming, but it merely confirmed to me that secondary duties were largely irrelevant from a career advancement perspective - as long as you were damn good at your job and displayed the competencies needed for advancement as an operator. I doubt I will ever do another secondary duty unless it’s something that interests me and I can add value to the unit by doing it. I won’t do them to tick boxes or play the game.
In the early stages of this process but the pension entitlement looks fiendishly complex. I was on APFS05 with transitional protection and could rejoin before 5 calendar years have elapsed since leaving. Reading MMP116 it sounds as though I would go back on AFPS05 but the lady on the JPAC front desk said all rejoiners join AFPS15. It looks as though AFPS15 would be better for me (top PA spine) as the career average would be all on max income and the pension is accrued at 1/47th of annual rather than 1/65th (IIRC) on AFPS05.
Anyone got any firm gen?
Anyone got any firm gen?
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He was fuming, but it merely confirmed to me that secondary duties were largely irrelevant from a career advancement perspective
I was a VO (mentioned this recently on another thread) for 9 months...not really sure it is appropriate to call this a secondary duty, but w/e.
So yeah, I agree.
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Hmmm ... Mess Secondary Duties? At various Stations at various times:
Mess Sec
Wines Member
D PMC
Mess Sec
PMC
Just grateful I skated past Entertainments, which had to be the biggest potential hole in the ground, and seemed to require an inordinate amount of out-of-hours work.
Mess Sec
Wines Member
D PMC
Mess Sec
PMC
Just grateful I skated past Entertainments, which had to be the biggest potential hole in the ground, and seemed to require an inordinate amount of out-of-hours work.
Hmmm ... Mess Secondary Duties? At various Stations at various times:
Mess Sec
Wines Member
D PMC
Mess Sec
PMC
Just grateful I skated past Entertainments, which had to be the biggest potential hole in the ground, and seemed to require an inordinate amount of out-of-hours work.
Mess Sec
Wines Member
D PMC
Mess Sec
PMC
Just grateful I skated past Entertainments, which had to be the biggest potential hole in the ground, and seemed to require an inordinate amount of out-of-hours work.
Your post got me thinking and I remember back to my first tour - playing the required game as Living In Member. Seem to recall quite a lot of business being done on a Friday in happy hour. God knows how much cash I managed to squeeze out of the PMC after a good few beers when my arguments were clearly far more persuasive than when sober!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Yeah, I got Wg Ents at Waddo. Did me a power of no good. Snag is we had Mr Fixit who had 5 or 6 secondary duties, either out of boredom of sheer efficiency. As a Sgt Nav he had been shot down on his first mission immediately after the dams raid. As flt !t he retired in 1968 and left this load of essee jobs that made the wg tick.
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You wont get many takers. As long as the airlines are offering 500-700 GBP a day for non-standby tasking and cancelled leave days, why would people want to come back in whilst MoD infra is literally falling down around their ears?
Plus, with most LH and SH pilots now flying 750+ hours per year of their 900 EASA limit, it doesnt leave much flex for CT, checks and then productive service... I think a model whereby the ammortised cost of a service person (pension,medical, CCS, accommodation) is rolled into a civ salary, you may get people more interested in the role. Until then, you are not going to retain with the Saudis offering 125K+ (Tax free) for FJ QFI, and the shorthaul airlines offering not much less (albeit pre taxed) after 4 years as a skipper on a 320/737 to live in not the arse end of Wales. Many airline pilots are now regularly taking between 60 to 80% contracts, I dont suspect there will be much interest in free time being taken up by signing up for reservist T+C's.
No stress, no admin wing bollotics, no CCS/fitness test/email bollockings for someone elses cock up, no constant erosion of T+C's and potential changing of pensions goalposts in the future. No turn the training pipeline on max, then make 150 pilots you have worked your guts for get made redundant. Until the MoD wake up to the 25% pay rise that the civilian aviation market has received in the past 10 years, things will not change.
I think a hard look at 70/80/90% contracts would be of value, rather than lose someone and gain them back as a reservist, why not keep them on a part time contract basis?
Those that are leaving to take desk jobs outside are typically living south of Brum, Bristol (ABW) or the smog. The commute to the North/Lincolnshire gap and the fact most leave as they dont want to set foot in an aircraft again will rule these chaps out as well.
I think the comments above are succinct in pointing out that peeps should be happy with their own lot, pride in service, love of what they do, which should be a primary driver of anyones decision. But the flip side of that is no-one should be criticized for leaving as a result of falling short of AFPS 75 Grandfather rights and deciding that loyalty is a 2 way highway. I personally have loved my service and hope to continue to do so, however, I think most who will have served in the past decade/15 years will have enough fill of the military experience (particularly the more punchy stuff) to be fulfilled for a very long time; I suspect this is the biggest "soft" reason we now have for an issue with retention and one that will be exceptionally difficult to solve.
Plus, with most LH and SH pilots now flying 750+ hours per year of their 900 EASA limit, it doesnt leave much flex for CT, checks and then productive service... I think a model whereby the ammortised cost of a service person (pension,medical, CCS, accommodation) is rolled into a civ salary, you may get people more interested in the role. Until then, you are not going to retain with the Saudis offering 125K+ (Tax free) for FJ QFI, and the shorthaul airlines offering not much less (albeit pre taxed) after 4 years as a skipper on a 320/737 to live in not the arse end of Wales. Many airline pilots are now regularly taking between 60 to 80% contracts, I dont suspect there will be much interest in free time being taken up by signing up for reservist T+C's.
No stress, no admin wing bollotics, no CCS/fitness test/email bollockings for someone elses cock up, no constant erosion of T+C's and potential changing of pensions goalposts in the future. No turn the training pipeline on max, then make 150 pilots you have worked your guts for get made redundant. Until the MoD wake up to the 25% pay rise that the civilian aviation market has received in the past 10 years, things will not change.
I think a hard look at 70/80/90% contracts would be of value, rather than lose someone and gain them back as a reservist, why not keep them on a part time contract basis?
Those that are leaving to take desk jobs outside are typically living south of Brum, Bristol (ABW) or the smog. The commute to the North/Lincolnshire gap and the fact most leave as they dont want to set foot in an aircraft again will rule these chaps out as well.
I think the comments above are succinct in pointing out that peeps should be happy with their own lot, pride in service, love of what they do, which should be a primary driver of anyones decision. But the flip side of that is no-one should be criticized for leaving as a result of falling short of AFPS 75 Grandfather rights and deciding that loyalty is a 2 way highway. I personally have loved my service and hope to continue to do so, however, I think most who will have served in the past decade/15 years will have enough fill of the military experience (particularly the more punchy stuff) to be fulfilled for a very long time; I suspect this is the biggest "soft" reason we now have for an issue with retention and one that will be exceptionally difficult to solve.
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Saudi quite probably won’t suit a lot of people (and the significant other). Having worked all over the world it would be last place I would want to go regardless of the money. Each to their own I guess
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
My SiL was looking at Saudi. Fortunately a friend of theirs there is having problems 
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Rejoin The Armed Forces Again?
I spent some good times in the forces been on some good detachments, and some around the world.But to rejoin again I don't think I would recognize today's forces having changed so much.
Glider 90
Glider 90
I don't think I would recognize today's forces having changed so much.
As a re-entrant in the late 80's, I was conscious of the fact that not only had the Royal Air Force changed in that decade, but also that I had changed as well. I think that this situation was recognised by the desk officers (one in particular) who found a way to put a square peg in a square hole.
This led to a delightful and challenging sunny overseas secondment into an international organization that promoted me twice in four years, followed by a very amicable quiet second exit from the RAF in the mid 90's: a move which also happened to serve the greater national interest at that time.
This led to a delightful and challenging sunny overseas secondment into an international organization that promoted me twice in four years, followed by a very amicable quiet second exit from the RAF in the mid 90's: a move which also happened to serve the greater national interest at that time.
I don’t...secondary duties were largely irrelevant from a career advancement perspective - as long as you were damn good at your job and displayed the competencies needed for advancement as an operator. I doubt I will ever do another secondary duty unless it’s something that interests me and I can add value to the unit by doing it. I won’t do them to tick boxes or play the game.
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I was reading about XH558's final years and the captain was flying her as his secondary duty, having previously been a Vulcan QFI before moving over to the Victor.
But there are those who aren't damned good at their job, or even close, and thirst for secondary duties to make up for their shortcomings.
Also, one thing to remember if you are thinking of re-joining is that these types are now the senior officers of today. I was frequently gobsmacked when I saw which of these became execs in the years since. One of my particularly lacklustre contemporaries who was studying his ATPLs with the rest of us decided that as we were all leaving, he may stay in as he stood a good chance of being promoted. He did quite well in the end. The thought of him being in charge of me is enough to make me think that it's not worth returning.