Vulcan Memories
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TL, on the first I was stating the figures, on the latter, banter with an element if truth as there was indeed an improvement in bombing results. A good score of 400 yards didn't look as good when it was passed as 1200 feet.
H2S, the worlds first microwave oven, although the RAF WW2 navigator operater would have been unaware.I believe it was first used in Stirling's and Halibags and fell into German hands pretty soon after!
“ Standby for score in yards....times ten” Oh dear!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TL, I spent some time at Tumby. The operator would pore over the code card to create 'scores' and wait for someone to drop one in the appropriate bucket. They then delighted in "Delta Hotel, delta hotel, Delta hotel times 5"
Before that we had the non-carrying daily additive.
Before that we had the non-carrying daily additive.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK East Anglia
Age: 66
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carousel
Caz, re your #37
I believe BA May have provided Carousel IN units for B.B.
Omega was also installed on Nimrod R not sure if it got onto the Vulcan.
I believe BA May have provided Carousel IN units for B.B.
Omega was also installed on Nimrod R not sure if it got onto the Vulcan.
I thought that the Carousel units were robbed from some ex civvy VC10s that had been bought for tanker conversion and stored at Abingdon. The Vulcan was given twin Carousel fit, no Omega. The Victor fleet were given a single Carousel and Omega.
H2S, used as recently as Blackbuck, was used in Lancasters in 1943/44.
Thread Starter
Re astro navigation - the unit in the SR-71 would typically self-align within 30 seconds of the aircraft being rolled out of the hangar assuming there were no clouds, the largest track deviation one pilot ever noted on an operational mission was 300 feet with no requirement for fixes or updates from the GIB who simply plugged in waypoints via his keyboard. For the era I always found that immensely impressive for a completely autonomous unit.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 40
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I remember correctly the Victors either had Carousel or Omega or neither and it was pot luck which one you flew on the long Ascension slots. The Carousel was removed after the conflict and for the Gulf the Victor fleet all had Omega.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Thailand
Age: 75
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I arrived at Cottesmore, my first posting after Halton graduation (airframe fitter), just a few weeks before this event. I heard the bang. It is burned into my pshyche.
Re post #44. I remember the Vulcan at Cottesmore (XM 604) crashing on 30th January 1968. I was working in the ‘Gin Palace’ at the time. The Gin Palace (Electronics Centre) was situated where the large concrete parking area is now, in front of the Hangars.
Walking between Hangars 2 and 3, I was returning to work early one lunch-time (about 12:50) when I saw this Vulcan flying the length of the Runway with Undercarriage down and Bomb Doors open. I was told later that it had returned early from a sortie because of a Bomb Bay Overheat warning (possibly why the bomb bay doors were open?). As it continued towards Oakham it started a gentle level or slightly climbing Left Hand turn. Instead of rolling level when it got downwind, it continued turning and rolling. Just before it disappeared out of view behind a Hangar I believe I saw the Cockpit Canopy or a parachute. Then there was a pall of smoke but no sound of an explosion (to me anyway, but there was a Hangar and a couple of miles between me and the Aircraft).
I also heard later that the Co-Pilot had ejected when the Aircraft had rolled 90 degrees and he sustained a broken arm. The Captain had ejected when the aircraft was almost inverted. His parachute became entangled with Electricity cables and, after a couple of loops round the cables, he unbuckled and dropped a few feet to the ground unharmed. The four in the back were not so lucky. Exiting from a rolling inverted Aircraft in the time available was not possible.
I, and many others, arrived at the scene within 15 minutes and the only recognisable part I saw was the Nose Undercarriage leg. Not being able to do anything there I was volunteered to help control and turn away the number of local people coming to see what had happened. I was surprised that one person was a reporter from the local paper. In pre-internet days and only land lines he did very well to get to this remote location so quickly.
For someone who had only been out of training six months it was a pretty sobering experience. I am glad to say that was the only crash I witnessed during my time in the RAF.
Walking between Hangars 2 and 3, I was returning to work early one lunch-time (about 12:50) when I saw this Vulcan flying the length of the Runway with Undercarriage down and Bomb Doors open. I was told later that it had returned early from a sortie because of a Bomb Bay Overheat warning (possibly why the bomb bay doors were open?). As it continued towards Oakham it started a gentle level or slightly climbing Left Hand turn. Instead of rolling level when it got downwind, it continued turning and rolling. Just before it disappeared out of view behind a Hangar I believe I saw the Cockpit Canopy or a parachute. Then there was a pall of smoke but no sound of an explosion (to me anyway, but there was a Hangar and a couple of miles between me and the Aircraft).
I also heard later that the Co-Pilot had ejected when the Aircraft had rolled 90 degrees and he sustained a broken arm. The Captain had ejected when the aircraft was almost inverted. His parachute became entangled with Electricity cables and, after a couple of loops round the cables, he unbuckled and dropped a few feet to the ground unharmed. The four in the back were not so lucky. Exiting from a rolling inverted Aircraft in the time available was not possible.
I, and many others, arrived at the scene within 15 minutes and the only recognisable part I saw was the Nose Undercarriage leg. Not being able to do anything there I was volunteered to help control and turn away the number of local people coming to see what had happened. I was surprised that one person was a reporter from the local paper. In pre-internet days and only land lines he did very well to get to this remote location so quickly.
For someone who had only been out of training six months it was a pretty sobering experience. I am glad to say that was the only crash I witnessed during my time in the RAF.
OSA, Apologies, it's an age thing. I remembered doing the initial fit at Marham before disappearing to ASI. I also remembered later aircraft having Omega and wrongly assumed that it was a dual fit.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 40
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it was in the ratio of a third Carousel, a third Omega, and a third standard nav fit. Turn back on a long slot with a dodgy doppler meant great reliance on the powerful ASI NDB that could be strongly influenced if there were thunderstorms about.
I posted above that I believed the H2S/NBC was still in use on the Victors in GW1. In view of remarks about Carousel and Omega was this actually the case, or had it been deactivated/removed by then?
OSA How on earth did you find yourself on a long slot with only the standard kit? Surely not planned, attrition maybe?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TO, I had a flight in a K2 in '85 when it was still 5-man. Some of the NBC, such as the ballistics computer had been removed. The R88 Camera was also gone. The H2S appeared to be degraded compared to the bombers, and the nav rad used much higher brilliance and gain settings. The Blue Steel GPI 6, which had been retained in the FF Vulcan had been replaced with GPI 4. This was older and less accurate but actually simpler to use.
On the air bridge the norm was the short Victor and long Herc. The long Victor was an option where a crew would be on standby should the long Herd go u/s. It never did during my time in ASI.
For Air to Air RV the Tacan could give A-A ranges. I don't know if they had any RT bearing capability but that was clearly not used in hot situations.
On the air bridge the norm was the short Victor and long Herc. The long Victor was an option where a crew would be on standby should the long Herd go u/s. It never did during my time in ASI.
For Air to Air RV the Tacan could give A-A ranges. I don't know if they had any RT bearing capability but that was clearly not used in hot situations.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 40
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have wondered about this as well. I was demobbed a couple of years before GW1 and have heard stories about the Victors operating with a 4 man crew. Is this true? If so, which Nav was dropped and what kit did they have?
OSA How on earth did you find yourself on a long slot with only the standard kit? Surely not planned, attrition maybe?
OSA How on earth did you find yourself on a long slot with only the standard kit? Surely not planned, attrition maybe?
The H2S remained operational till the Victors demise in 1993. During GW1 it was used sparingly in the first few weeks when close to or over the Iraqi border and then in sector mode for maybe a few sweeps at a time to avoid detection. The nav kit was primarily a doppler fed GPI 4 , a Tacan, ADF, Omega and the H2s system supplemented with the good ole Mk1 eyeball.
The Calc 3 (the bombing part of the NBC for those unfamiliar) was removed from the K1s around 1973, and also from the B2s on conversion to K2s a year or two later. At the same time the R88 camera was removed much to my regret, as the foam head rest was ideal for the nav radar to lean on when having a snooze in quiet periods 
A-A Tacan did have bearing as well as range. We used it regularly when RVs were not being assisted by ground radar.
Thanks for the info on single nav OSA. My old plotter and I were wondering about that when chatting on the phone the other day. I remember seeing a photo in the RAF News of a nav taking the very last Gee fix before the system was shut down. I wonder who took the last fix off the H2S.
A-A Tacan did have bearing as well as range. We used it regularly when RVs were not being assisted by ground radar.Thanks for the info on single nav OSA. My old plotter and I were wondering about that when chatting on the phone the other day. I remember seeing a photo in the RAF News of a nav taking the very last Gee fix before the system was shut down. I wonder who took the last fix off the H2S.
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 31st Jan 2018 at 23:43.