PPRuNe Forums


Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th Jan 2018, 08:25   #41 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantomraspberry View Post
It would release funds to maintain a balanced force and prevent the desperate search for manpower.
Sadly I suspect the money would disappear into the Govt coffers and never be seen again. Also I can't see how it would improve recruiting. A career (or job)in the Armed Forces is not seen as an attractive option for most of society due to a multitude of reasons, most of which are outside our control
PapaDolmio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 10:47   #42 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 13,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The big hole is caused by the fact that the Trident replacement was added to the defence budget when it used to be a stand-alone cost. Take it out again and the problem disappears.
Scrap Trident and by an off the shelf system from North Korea
NutLoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 11:03   #43 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uranus
Posts: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by reds & greens View Post
The terrible serviceability rates of the E-3D Sentry, coupled to the low availability and flying rates they attain, mean that 2-3 can go. Get rid of Sentinel, which came in as a UOR only, - has that requirement ended? Lose 2 Shadow and put RJ at Mildenhall. Close Waddington (with the exception of the Creech/Drone interlink).
Would also need to find a home for the AWC?

Sentinel was a core programme and not a UOR. Also, the Allies love its product - currently seen as the best out there. Current OSD is 2021.

Mildenhall is due to close and the RJ det to move to Germany.

We’re tied into NATO for AWACS so we either carry on, upgrade it so that a lot of the issues go away, pay lots to join in the NATO AEW&C deal or replace it with something better.

Shadow is growing due to customer demand.

More likely to leave Creech than Waddo. However, keeping footprints on either side of the globe means that 24/7 ops can do extended day shifts each.

Sorry me old, closing Waddo? That would be a bad idea.

The B Word
The B Word is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 12:03   #44 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 1,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by The B Word View Post
Would also need to find a home for the AWC?

Sentinel was a core programme and not a UOR. Also, the Allies love its product - currently seen as the best out there. Current OSD is 2021.

Mildenhall is due to close and the RJ det to move to Germany.

Weíre tied into NATO for AWACS so we either carry on, upgrade it so that a lot of the issues go away, pay lots to join in the NATO AEW&C deal or replace it with something better.

Shadow is growing due to customer demand.

More likely to leave Creech than Waddo. However, keeping footprints on either side of the globe means that 24/7 ops can do extended day shifts each.

Sorry me old, closing Waddo? That would be a bad idea.

The B Word
Nope the RIvet Joints are staying in UK ...Fairford is being tipped as the Newman location however there is also talk of having a joint USAF -RAF RIvet Joint base

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-u...t-rc-135-base/

Canít exactly fit Rivet Joints onto say Ramstein or Spang without a helluva lot of work to be done in terms of supporting infrastructure ( hence some work has. Or is or will be started at Fairford)


You are thinking of the Bloody Hundreth relocating to Ramstein with their tankers. Bearing in mind that the ĎHalls stay of execution keeps getting pushed back and also the Germans are not overly happy about increase in movements from USAfE bases and they limitations on Flying out of hours compared to here.

Cheers
chopper2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 14:01   #45 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by reds & greens View Post
The terrible serviceability rates of the E-3D Sentry, coupled to the low availability and flying rates they attain, mean that 2-3 can go. Get rid of Sentinel, which came in as a UOR only, - has that requirement ended? Lose 2 Shadow and put RJ at Mildenhall. Close Waddington (with the exception of the Creech/Drone interlink).
Close Waddo? Mildenhall is closing...

I think your ISTAR knowledge is, at best, dated.
Pure Pursuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 14:57   #46 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 132
The smart money here is obviously on a RW fleet cull. Merlin 4 and Puma 2 seem most at risk, with Chinook (and to a lesser extent) Wildcat picking up the slack. Binning Puma 2 helps free up a nice load of real estate within commuting distance of the capital, which wont be going unnoticed by the lunatics running the asylum.

Obviously, in this case, everything is tied to the proposed Army cuts. If they do happen at that scale then the argument for culling RW becomes so much easier...
andrewn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 16:18   #47 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 6,491
if Merlin goes how will we get anyone on the carriers to shore? Chinook????
Heathrow Harry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 16:23   #48 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dundee
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
if Merlin goes how will we get anyone on the carriers to shore? Chinook????
......and what happens with Crowsnest which is currently being developed for Merlin integration?
Speedywheels is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:09   #49 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Somerset
Age: 62
Posts: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedywheels View Post
......and what happens with Crowsnest which is currently being developed for Merlin integration?
Crowsnest will be fitted to Merlin 2 not Merlin 4
Seaking93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:11   #50 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 6,491
hey! they'll have the T45's to defend them..................
Heathrow Harry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:13   #51 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: england
Posts: 878
AndrewN - exactly what slack is Wildcat going to pick up that Merlin/puma currently do? It's not a lift asset....
pba_target is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:33   #52 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba_target View Post
AndrewN - exactly what slack is Wildcat going to pick up that Merlin/puma currently do? It's not a lift asset....
So I'm pretty sure the Army Wildcat is tasked with moving equipment and boots around the battlefield, much the same as Puma - but don't disagree with you that it's capabilities in this space are somewhat limited. On the plus side we've still got 60 Chinook's to play with!
andrewn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:39   #53 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 6,491
Would the Chinooks have to stay on deck or are the lifts big enough to take them down for stowage, repair etc etc
Heathrow Harry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:54   #54 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
if Merlin goes how will we get anyone on the carriers to shore? Chinook????
ah the carriers - those soon to be rusting hulks that we couldnt afford when we ordered them, can't afford to man and maintan them now, and have no practical use for!

Now what was the question?
andrewn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 18:20   #55 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 6,648
Quote:
So I'm pretty sure the Army Wildcat is tasked with moving equipment and boots around the battlefield, much the same as Puma
hahahahahahaha - they reduced the room available in the cabin from what the Lynx had so the Army Wildcat's lift capability is minimal. I think you are lucky to get 5 troops in fighting order but it might even be less.

Oh and it has very limited endurance.

The Puma, in its new guise and when it is serviceable, is a far better support helicopter.

The AAC didn't want the Wildcat but if it goes, along with some AH, it doesn't leave a very big 'Corps'
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 18:45   #56 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
hahahahahahaha - they reduced the room available in the cabin from what the Lynx had so the Army Wildcat's lift capability is minimal. I think you are lucky to get 5 troops in fighting order but it might even be less.

Oh and it has very limited endurance.

The Puma, in its new guise and when it is serviceable, is a far better support helicopter.

The AAC didn't want the Wildcat but if it goes, along with some AH, it doesn't leave a very big 'Corps'
that is funny - sounds like an inspired purchase! Agree with you that the future for Army aviation looks pretty bleak. But at least we'll have the carriers....
andrewn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 19:16   #57 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where-ever nav's chooses....
Posts: 584
Id suggest there is a decent chance the AAC are offered transfers to the FAA and RAF...
alfred_the_great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 19:28   #58 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Age: 48
Posts: 168
Every time we cut our armed forces I'm left with a feeling of relief that we can't possibly cut any more, but then a few years later we seem to find ways to make more cuts. Ocean is going which leaves Albion and Bulwark as the only way to make maritime landings so if they go we lose an important part of our military flexibility. Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales are both touted as flexible platforms but they can't perform the same role as Albion and Bulwark, particularly if they have to provide air support as well as a helicopter platform. The loss of more frigates also seems foolhardy if we want a decent amount of protection around either of the carriers. Lastly at risk of mentioning the B word, these proposed cuts will make it harder for us to maintain a high profile on a world stage of the sort that the Tories envisage post Brexit.
skydiver69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 23:25   #59 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Darling - where are we?
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
The smart money here is obviously on a RW fleet cull. Merlin 4 and Puma 2 seem most at risk, with Chinook (and to a lesser extent) Wildcat picking up the slack. Binning Puma 2 helps free up a nice load of real estate within commuting distance of the capital, which wont be going unnoticed by the lunatics running the asylum.

Obviously, in this case, everything is tied to the proposed Army cuts. If they do happen at that scale then the argument for culling RW becomes so much easier...
Hmmm, Iím a bit out of the loop these days, but I doubt itís that simple. Get rid of all your medium SH, with Bulwark and Albion also at risk? Then you really do have to start asking what about the Marines. You really donít want to have to use an aircraft carrier just to land a few hundred light infantry. Be good for top cover for the landings mind, but thatís about it. Plus, have you actually seen up close the size of a Chinook? Great for lugging heavy kit around and large scale troop infils, but occasionally you need a smaller cab able to get in and out of smaller spaces and with a slightly lower acoustic signature. Unfortunately that just isnít Wildcat.

Plus, with all the other bits at Benson youíd have to find a home for, I wouldnít be too sure selling Benson is the easiest answer. And the humanitarian use for RW means they will always be around, even if weíre not doing war fighting.
Melchett01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2018, 02:28   #60 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lossie
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimlad1 View Post
No Sir, no there wasn't a reasonably balanced budget pre 2015 based on a rate of exchange at a certain level.

No there wasn't a significant and sustained collapse in the pounds exchange rate which has had an enormous impact on the ability to buy stuff, due to a sudden and large variance between planned exchange rates and actual exchange rates.

I must have imagined this financial car crash, such was my elation at the prospect that a bunch of my countrymen have decided to take this country back decades, after being sold a bunch of lies by the tabloid press and extremist political parties and then creating the conditions which is seeing this country hurtle headfirst into a strategic crisis the likes of which will take decades to recover from.

Thank god I imagined all of that, otherwise we'd be in a bit of trouble now wouldnt we...
Exchange rates vary all the time. Pre referendum the pound v dollar was averaging around 1.6, since the referendum we have seen it go as low as 1.20 but its now back to 1.37 and climbing. Like I said, these rates change all the time, any sensible procurement decision will be based on some movement left or right. I'm sure the longer term value of the pound is what is more important, and its still too early to tell which way it will go.

Last edited by m0nkfish; 15th Jan 2018 at 05:02.
m0nkfish is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:36.


© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1