Public sector pensions.
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I understand that other EU countries bill the UK for health treatment for expats treated abroad. So, for instance, if a Brit has public health treatment in France, the UK taxpayer eventually picks up the bill under EU reciprocal arrangements. It should happen in reverse, but despite the larger number of Europeans treated in UK, we recoup less than one tenth of what we pay out! Says something about the accountability of the NHS. Unfortunately, I cant remember where I read this, so treat the figures with caution.
Just saying!!
Just saying!!
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I have just checked, and it was the BMA that listed 2013/14 NHS payments to Europe for Expat treatment at £674 million while our receipts from Europe under reciprocal arrangements was a mere £49 million. So although one may be overseas, the UK taxpayer is still picking up the tab.
Steady on chaps/chapesses! We are all caught by this so why are we having a go at each other?
ShyTorque et al, the reason why the rules differ if you live in the UK or abroad is v simple.
If you pay people increasing benefits who live in the UK where, in the main, does that money go? Ans:- I know there will be exceptions but, generally, straight back into the UK economy which generates more employment, taxes etc, etc, etc back into the Treasury. If you pay increasing benefits to pensioners domiciled abroad that money then goes into those foreign economies. How does that benefit HMG?
And we all know politicos/HMRC work out to the next 3 years max and to hell with the longer term. (Danny42 picked that up at Post #3 realising it is a Ponzi scheme) so they don’t look at “costs” also moving abroad. That “cost” will all take place long after the current politicos have retired!
OK, simplistic/cynical macro-economics from an “economics nerd” I know … but you can see why they do it. It is a plot to keep the dosh today in the UK in the short term. Endex!
On a lighter side….
I just love Melchett01’s logic!!!!!! How brilliant is that as a “retirement goal”. Sadly, I think anyone under, say, 30(?) today will never achieve that.
On a darker side…
Sadly, a bit like tdracer, I bet the day compulsory euthanasia at age 65 or 70 will be voted in by our kids/grandkids is not too far away! To be honest, I have no idea how they could afford not to! The little swine!!!
ShyTorque et al, the reason why the rules differ if you live in the UK or abroad is v simple.
If you pay people increasing benefits who live in the UK where, in the main, does that money go? Ans:- I know there will be exceptions but, generally, straight back into the UK economy which generates more employment, taxes etc, etc, etc back into the Treasury. If you pay increasing benefits to pensioners domiciled abroad that money then goes into those foreign economies. How does that benefit HMG?
And we all know politicos/HMRC work out to the next 3 years max and to hell with the longer term. (Danny42 picked that up at Post #3 realising it is a Ponzi scheme) so they don’t look at “costs” also moving abroad. That “cost” will all take place long after the current politicos have retired!
OK, simplistic/cynical macro-economics from an “economics nerd” I know … but you can see why they do it. It is a plot to keep the dosh today in the UK in the short term. Endex!
On a lighter side….
I just love Melchett01’s logic!!!!!! How brilliant is that as a “retirement goal”. Sadly, I think anyone under, say, 30(?) today will never achieve that.
On a darker side…
Sadly, a bit like tdracer, I bet the day compulsory euthanasia at age 65 or 70 will be voted in by our kids/grandkids is not too far away! To be honest, I have no idea how they could afford not to! The little swine!!!
F.O.D.
More or less right. In the EU the U.K. pays an agreed sum per annum to the country that the pensioners live in. In the same way the EU countries with pensioners here pay the U.K. Goverment. I guess this might change soon. For the rest of the world as far as I know no money changes hands, but if one was to come "home" for treatment one would be asked to pay.
Re your second post with sums quoted, I think you'll find that they cover EHIC cards, which are are mainly not asked for in U.K. hospitals.
Plus the fact that there's not many EU pensioners in U.K. Might have something to do with the weather.
More or less right. In the EU the U.K. pays an agreed sum per annum to the country that the pensioners live in. In the same way the EU countries with pensioners here pay the U.K. Goverment. I guess this might change soon. For the rest of the world as far as I know no money changes hands, but if one was to come "home" for treatment one would be asked to pay.
Re your second post with sums quoted, I think you'll find that they cover EHIC cards, which are are mainly not asked for in U.K. hospitals.
Plus the fact that there's not many EU pensioners in U.K. Might have something to do with the weather.
Last edited by Sevarg; 8th Jan 2018 at 21:41. Reason: Re your second added
Those little swine have most likely been watching this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
Originally Posted by Hot 'n' High
Sadly, a bit like [B
Sadly, a bit like [B
tdracer[/B], I bet the day compulsory euthanasia at age 65 or 70 will be voted in by our kids/grandkids is not too far away! To be honest, I have no idea how they could afford not to! The little swine!!!
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I have just checked, and it was the BMA that listed 2013/14 NHS payments to Europe for Expat treatment at £674 million while our receipts from Europe under reciprocal arrangements was a mere £49 million. So although one may be overseas, the UK taxpayer is still picking up the tab.
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I moved overseas during my working life. There was no variation of my pension contribution depending on where I lived and worked, or of the number of years that I paid those contributions.
Therefore any variation in the benefits received, is inequitable.
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It's all pretty much moot. Most of the work gets done, not by politicians, but by actuaries. And the Government's actuary has just concluded that NIC need to rise by 5% in order to maintain just the basic state provision. AFPS22, anyone? Means tested state pension, anyone?
Me, I think higher NIC is just a ploy to get people to retire. But wait. Let's combine Income Tax and NIC..
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...0_Dec_2017.pdf
Me, I think higher NIC is just a ploy to get people to retire. But wait. Let's combine Income Tax and NIC..
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...0_Dec_2017.pdf
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"Let's combine Income Tax and NIC.."
been talked about for years but see
Could merging National Insurance with income tax have worked? | ICAEW Economia
" one big problem would be knowing where to start. And that’s not the only poser. At the end of the day, any changes have to be approved by politicians constantly glancing over their shoulders to see what voters think. Most plans to align NICs and income tax creates winners and losers – and any government will want to know how that will play out with its key supporters."
been talked about for years but see
Could merging National Insurance with income tax have worked? | ICAEW Economia
" one big problem would be knowing where to start. And that’s not the only poser. At the end of the day, any changes have to be approved by politicians constantly glancing over their shoulders to see what voters think. Most plans to align NICs and income tax creates winners and losers – and any government will want to know how that will play out with its key supporters."
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Harry,
Agree. The problem is, if it is a problem, that Labour sees it as a vote winner. Increasingly, people see higher taxes as a vote winner. Philosophically, that runs contra to Conservative values.
Agree. The problem is, if it is a problem, that Labour sees it as a vote winner. Increasingly, people see higher taxes as a vote winner. Philosophically, that runs contra to Conservative values.
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I have just checked, and it was the BMA that listed 2013/14 NHS payments to Europe for Expat treatment at £674 million while our receipts from Europe under reciprocal arrangements was a mere £49 million. So although one may be overseas, the UK taxpayer is still picking up the tab.
Many ex pat Brits are "elderly". They are a greater drain on health care services than those EU citizens who come to Britain not to retire, but to work and/or study.
Many ex pat Brits are "elderly". They are a greater drain on health care services than those EU citizens who come to Britain not to retire, but to work and/or study.
PDR
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Because they are no longer contributing to the UK economy. And typically these expats come running back toi the UK any time they need "serious" medical treatment (hip replacements, heart bypass, personality implant etc) because it's "free" here rather than paying several grand to have it done in their chosen Elysium.
PDR
PDR
Basically for every ex pat pensioner exported to other EU countries the Uk gets two productive tax paying 20 to 45 year olds in return.
Those clogging-up the beds in the current NHS winter flu crisis are not the 20 to 45 year olds but the elderly.
Last edited by roving; 9th Jan 2018 at 10:07. Reason: syntax
