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Attack on Russian Airbase in Syria.

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Attack on Russian Airbase in Syria.

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Old 4th Jan 2018, 12:46
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Attack on Russian Airbase in Syria.

Russian airbase hit in Syria.

It would appear that perhaps some less than professional tactics have seen a major loss of equipment and lives.

In a mortar attack on the country's "Khmeimim" air base outpost located south of the port city of Latakia in Syria around four Su-24 Fencer attack jets, two Su-35 multi-role fighters, and an AN-72 tactical transport have been damaged or destroyed together with casualties.

It had been previously observed that the aircraft were not dispersed but close together and near fuel and munitions. This follows the recent loss of a Mi-24 Hind together with the crew.

https://www.voanews.com/a/russian-so...k/4191699.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN1ES20C

A major loss in a single incident and reminiscent of the 1012 Camp Bastion raid where two US Marines and 14 Taliban fighters were killed, six Harriers destroyed and two damaged.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 13:01
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Brat, that is a typical problem when trying to cope with an intruder threat or a stand off threat. They probably thought the intruder threat was the greater.

Ground defence commanders with limited resources frequently opt for a smaller perimeter.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 13:29
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Remember being shown full length film of Bien Hoa 1965 disaster entitled convincingly enough "How to Stage a Disaster" on at least two occasions during various weapons/ordinance training courses.

Shortened version below...

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Old 4th Jan 2018, 14:25
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Interesting. USN routinely packs their tactical aircraft (and fuel, and munitions) in a VERY tight area. My point? There are no simple answers, much less single answers we can all point to as the way to do things.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 14:37
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The difference today is burn not bang..
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 15:46
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KenV, embarked? They will have plenty of suppression systems but a bit hard for explosive safety distances.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 15:50
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The US Navy has suffered several major accidents on its carriers - I think Forrestal and Oriskany?

Bien Hoa, I understand, was caused by the premature explosion of a bomb on a B57 which destroyed an entire flight waiting to depart on a sortie and killed all the aircrew save one. The destruction continued with sympathetic explosions which killed a total of about two dozen USAF personnel and also destroyed some other aircraft.

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Old 4th Jan 2018, 16:29
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134 KIA or MIA during the USS Forrestal Fire.

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Old 4th Jan 2018, 16:55
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Russian official sources confirm death of 2 servicemen and loss of a heli (because of malfuntion, not of mortars), but decline loss of 7 aircraft. Anyway, such things cannot be hidden, and if aircraft were damaged, it would be clear soon.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 17:49
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Originally Posted by A_Van View Post
Russian official sources confirm death of 2 servicemen and loss of a heli (because of malfuntion, not of mortars), but decline loss of 7 aircraft. Anyway, such things cannot be hidden, and if aircraft were damaged, it would be clear soon.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 19:10
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Salute!

Pontius made a good call.

The commander at Wheeler, Oahu made the same call due to limited ground security resources. So the neat rows of closely spaced planes made for easy pickings, as the Russians found out.

By the time I got to Bien Hoa in 1967, we had all our planes in revetments. We also had limits on how many munitions could be in a revertment along with a plane. Nevertheless, we lost one first night of Tet when a 122mm rocket scored a direct hit on a loaded plane. No kidding, it was a smoking hole, but only the next plane over the wall had skin damage due to the shockwave. Lost another a year or two later same way, then we started to build concrete arches over the revetments. They were maybe 18"thick and the concrete was simply poured between two "quonset hut" roof sections. After that, no problems except for shrapnel damage if the mortar or Rx hit right in front of the plane.

I always had doubts about our buffs at Grand Forks, as their alert pad was about a half mile from the main highway. About a dozen armed buffs maybe 100 feet apart. A well-timed mortar attack from the highway just as their missile launched would have been nasty. Just for a few minutes, tho, as the 2 megaton airburst 20 minutes later would have made all else moot.

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Last edited by gums; 4th Jan 2018 at 19:10. Reason: typos
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 19:25
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then we started to build concrete arches over the revetments. They were maybe 18"thick and the concrete was simply poured between two "quonset hut" roof sections.
gums,

That style of shelter was still present at Tan Son Nhat when I first went to Saigon in 1995. One had a .50 cal tripod on the roof and another one had a mortar bomb hole in it.

Although they weren’t used for storage, they survived until they were demolished a couple of years ago. Some of the revetments are still there, as are some of the aircraft abandoned in 1975!
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 22:59
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Salute!

Good update India.

Only reason we had revetments in Thailand at Korat was the fratricide if something blew up or caught fire. See Oriskany and Forrestal.

Dunno about the Russians, but the NATO folks did not put the final component of the fuse in until the jet was about to be loaded on the plane. The booster was inserted at the bomb dump in most cases. The final doofer with the impact trigger and the detonator was screwed in when the bomb was loaded on my jet.


Somehow, looking back to the 60's, I get this feeling that the U.S, and a few allied folks had more experience in these matters than the Russians. I mean, how many nights did the Russians and friends fly a few hundred sorties, employ a few hundred cruise missiles and take out the central communication facility of a country? I do not know how many mortar attacks the Russians faced in the 'stan during the 80's, but the Frogfoot and Hind were there until the withdrawal. In 'nam, the Vee hit us early on as soon as we massed enuf hardware to make it worthwhile.

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Old 5th Jan 2018, 04:46
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Can anyone translate downsizer’s Russian tweet above?
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 04:49
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6 Su 24
1 Su 35C
1 An 72
1 An 30
And so on?
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 06:12
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Jolihokistix,

Here is the translation of the fragment in Russian that you were asking for:

"По базе в Хмеймим. Всё же пострадала техника. Предварительно 6 Су-24, 1 Су-35С, 1 Ан-72, 1 Ан-30 разведчик, 1 Ми-8. 2 Су-24 и Су-35С ввели в строй."

"Concerning the Khmeimim airbase. Hardware suffered, nevertheless. Preliminary saying, 6 Su-24, 1 Su-35, 1 An-72, 1 An-30 reconaissance, 1 Mi-8. 2 Su-24 and Su-35 are back in operation".


First, it's quite vague about the the damages. Maybe they were minor and could be fixed on the spot in days/weeks.

Second, regarding the picture posted and its source.... Well, I can shot dozens much more "dramatic" ones at the nearest AF base where old dead planes stay near the fence. Referring to an unknown blogger is just not very much convincing.

BTW, Russian military sources say that the mortars were Russian made, 82-mm ones named "Vasilyok" ("Cornflower"). Turkey had this stuff. Perhaps the items were smuggled from there?
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 06:48
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A_Van does your nearest base leave their scrapped jets next to the fence bombed up, leaking fuel and with engines intact?
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 09:50
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There is also numerous photos of SU-24 Bort 29 in Syria.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 09:52
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Thank you kindly, A Van.


Ah, there is a full-stop in there. Back in action are the following only... "2 Su-24 and Su-35 are back in operation".


Some thought-provoking ideas in this article. All rebel groups look out!
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...090329298.html

Last edited by jolihokistix; 5th Jan 2018 at 11:11.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 14:10
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Originally Posted by A_Van View Post
Jolihokistix,


BTW, Russian military sources say that the mortars were Russian made, 82-mm ones named "Vasilyok" ("Cornflower"). Turkey had this stuff. Perhaps the items were smuggled from there?

While I am sure some would love to blame Turkey, there is plenty of Russian made stuff in the theater- ex-Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi, black market, direct from Russia and into rebel hands, etc. etc.....


When I see an ISIS/ISIL/Daech rebel with an AK-47 should I assume they got it from Turkey?
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