With Fortitude undergone the Rigorous Requirements
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With Fortitude undergone the Rigorous Requirements
Those who recognize the title of the thread will have done the sea survival course at RAF Mount Batten. I did mine in 72. Was chucked off the back of a boat in the Channel, towed (sometimes submerged), into one man dinghy, lost breakfast and so on.
Question for rotary types. When the rescue man arrived much later, walking across the water on a line from the chopper - I'm assuming the chopper was a Wessex - Yes? Or have I got it wrong?
It's very important - there is a beer at stake.
Question for rotary types. When the rescue man arrived much later, walking across the water on a line from the chopper - I'm assuming the chopper was a Wessex - Yes? Or have I got it wrong?
It's very important - there is a beer at stake.
I did my sea survival course in May 1966. Unfortunately, a Master Pilot suffered a heart attack and died in the water on the second day of practical training.
The preparations and speed of response from the staff at Mount B was hopeless and they seemed not to be ready for anything to go wrong. None of my course was called to give evidence to the enquiry and I pushed off to Borneo ten days later and so never heard the results.
In 1972 it might have been a Wessex but in 1966 it was a Chivenor based Whirlwind flown by a mate, who thought it was very funny to discharge the static through me and not the water!! It rather depends on when in 72 you did the course as both types were around at various locations.
I do know of one numpty who tried to record his time in the back of the aircraft, after being hauled out the oggin, as '2nd pilot' but was given a sharp clip around the ear!
I do recall that as supposedly rotary (I was a blanket stacker in real life but about the last ground crew guy to do the crewmens' course before it went to surplus air sigs) I was given the small backpack with my one man dinghy in it. When we went in, the others had a dinghy pack thrown after them but I had mine cuddled in my arms almost before I hit the water. We also didn't wear anything apart from overalls, swim trunks and plimsolls - I think the enquiry ensured that changed.
A couple of year's ago I launched a private campaign to get the Master Pilot's name inscribed on the Armed Forces Memorial at Alrewas. His name was not there because his cause of death was recorded as 'heart attack', which whilst true failed to acknowledge where and why. After a bit of a tussle I was successful and it was added last year, although I have never been able to trace his family who might be completely unaware.
Old Duffer
The preparations and speed of response from the staff at Mount B was hopeless and they seemed not to be ready for anything to go wrong. None of my course was called to give evidence to the enquiry and I pushed off to Borneo ten days later and so never heard the results.
In 1972 it might have been a Wessex but in 1966 it was a Chivenor based Whirlwind flown by a mate, who thought it was very funny to discharge the static through me and not the water!! It rather depends on when in 72 you did the course as both types were around at various locations.
I do know of one numpty who tried to record his time in the back of the aircraft, after being hauled out the oggin, as '2nd pilot' but was given a sharp clip around the ear!
I do recall that as supposedly rotary (I was a blanket stacker in real life but about the last ground crew guy to do the crewmens' course before it went to surplus air sigs) I was given the small backpack with my one man dinghy in it. When we went in, the others had a dinghy pack thrown after them but I had mine cuddled in my arms almost before I hit the water. We also didn't wear anything apart from overalls, swim trunks and plimsolls - I think the enquiry ensured that changed.
A couple of year's ago I launched a private campaign to get the Master Pilot's name inscribed on the Armed Forces Memorial at Alrewas. His name was not there because his cause of death was recorded as 'heart attack', which whilst true failed to acknowledge where and why. After a bit of a tussle I was successful and it was added last year, although I have never been able to trace his family who might be completely unaware.
Old Duffer
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
O-D, on temps, on my first dip in '64 I had not been warned about footwear. It was so cold I kept my socks on. I spent all the time in the water worried that the sock would come off.
A Kiwi Nav, Rex Cording, was so quick he managed to inflate his dinghy before the pack was opened. It trapped his hand. The helpful staff left him as if for real. After a long time, it seemed, they threw him another dinghy. Temp was 4.
Next in '69, pure luxury, full goon suits and underwear even if not entirely waterproof. However to 10 degree rule was still only applicable if your tyoe has suits.
My next dip, around spring IIRC, as we were destined for Cyprus, was no suits. We were left for almost 3 hours as there was Purple Airspace and the chopper was late.
For the SS drill the following day our plotter, Frank Guard, craftily said we should experience suits as a contrast which would encourage us to demand them in future. As it happens, spring sprung, the sun shone, the seas smoothed and we paddled around, rafted the dinghies together and had fun, and pissed off the boat crew that tried to soak us.
A Kiwi Nav, Rex Cording, was so quick he managed to inflate his dinghy before the pack was opened. It trapped his hand. The helpful staff left him as if for real. After a long time, it seemed, they threw him another dinghy. Temp was 4.
Next in '69, pure luxury, full goon suits and underwear even if not entirely waterproof. However to 10 degree rule was still only applicable if your tyoe has suits.
My next dip, around spring IIRC, as we were destined for Cyprus, was no suits. We were left for almost 3 hours as there was Purple Airspace and the chopper was late.
For the SS drill the following day our plotter, Frank Guard, craftily said we should experience suits as a contrast which would encourage us to demand them in future. As it happens, spring sprung, the sun shone, the seas smoothed and we paddled around, rafted the dinghies together and had fun, and pissed off the boat crew that tried to soak us.
I acted as rubber-clad fish food on many an occasion - whether at Mountbatten, Valley, Tenby, Bridlington or wherever it was on the East Anglian coast. Plucked out by Whirlwind, Wessex or Sea King...
Best was invariably when the RAF still ran Mountbatten and the MCU. Worst was either when trying to change out of an immersion suit in the paint locker of some rolling boat off East Anglia - or the St.Mawgan / Fowey / (some RM barracks) adventure. Not the 'laughing at your willy' course, just the regular SCSR course, I hasten to add!
Helicopter support was...variable. Sometimes the weather prevented the Chivenor aircraft crossing the moor, on another occasion a live shout took priority. But they were excellent when they did turn up!
There was a tale doing the rounds that one chap in a SS dinghy got fed up with waiting, so took advantage of wind and tide, hoiked up his sea anchor and made it ashore. Was that fact or fiction?
Best was invariably when the RAF still ran Mountbatten and the MCU. Worst was either when trying to change out of an immersion suit in the paint locker of some rolling boat off East Anglia - or the St.Mawgan / Fowey / (some RM barracks) adventure. Not the 'laughing at your willy' course, just the regular SCSR course, I hasten to add!
Helicopter support was...variable. Sometimes the weather prevented the Chivenor aircraft crossing the moor, on another occasion a live shout took priority. But they were excellent when they did turn up!
There was a tale doing the rounds that one chap in a SS dinghy got fed up with waiting, so took advantage of wind and tide, hoiked up his sea anchor and made it ashore. Was that fact or fiction?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Once when I did the Mountbatten course I was watching all the fixed-wing pilots being dragged along behind the boat, simulating their parachute. I was on choppers at the time, and was wearing a waistcoat dinghy. After I pointed out that I wouldn't be dragged, it was pointed out back that, unlike the others, I wouldn't have my life-vest inflated until clearing the aircraft, under water. That was followed by a hefty push off the back of the boat. I don't know how far down I went before I managed to inflate the life-jacket, but the bottom of Plymouth Sound was there somewhere.
I remember 3 types of sea dinghy drill. The first was off Plymouth in a single sea life raft. No problems there. The second was being told to jump out of a Hastings into Limassol Bay. The last was in a MS24 (or whatever number it was) with the 20 or so VC10 crew, most of which were depositing their breakfast either over the side or in the life raft. Not nice. The final drill I did was in the Brize swimming pool when I was age of 55 and being told to swim 2 lengths with a flying suit on (which acted as a great sea anchor). Old Duffer, I also did the Mountbatten sea drill age 54 in February, but luckily was allowed to an immersion suit. Did they ever learn?
sharpend wrote:
When they introduced the fitness test 
, the elf 'n safety mob insisted that aged old farts such as you and I, Blunty, wore those cardiac monitor things to ensure that nothing went off-scale high as we furiously pedalled away to nowhere.
When one of our even older colleagues got back from a swimming pool wet drill, having been given the same instruction as you, he looked utterly knackered and all-in. So when I was invited by 'combat loadie' to do the same I told him he could ***k off in fine pitch until the risk had been assessed and mitigated. "Yer wot?" was the reply - so instead I volunteered for another day by (and in) the sea down Devon way!
The final drill I did was in the Brize swimming pool when I was age of 55 and being told to swim 2 lengths with a flying suit on (which acted as a great sea anchor).
, the elf 'n safety mob insisted that aged old farts such as you and I, Blunty, wore those cardiac monitor things to ensure that nothing went off-scale high as we furiously pedalled away to nowhere.When one of our even older colleagues got back from a swimming pool wet drill, having been given the same instruction as you, he looked utterly knackered and all-in. So when I was invited by 'combat loadie' to do the same I told him he could ***k off in fine pitch until the risk had been assessed and mitigated. "Yer wot?" was the reply - so instead I volunteered for another day by (and in) the sea down Devon way!
Just checked my certificate for April 1971 and I see it was signed by a Flt Lt Simon Wright. As I recall he was the chap who had been a nav, and then "remustered" as a pilot. His trick was to wear a BD with a nav brevet on day one of the course, then turn up in one with pilot's wings on the second day and see if anybody noticed.
Short straw doing the course in April when sea temperatures are just about at their lowest. As I recall we did it without immersion suits - "fortitude" indeed!
Short straw doing the course in April when sea temperatures are just about at their lowest. As I recall we did it without immersion suits - "fortitude" indeed!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I always enjoyed the single seat dinghy, once I was in. The trick with the MS of various sizes was to volunteer as lookout. I never suffered from seasickness, but keeping my head away from other people's breakfast was a must.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We didn't reach dry land but made a pretty good run at it.
On our first drill in 64 we knew we were so close to shore as we could hear cattle mooing. On the launch afterwards we real I uses it was a copilot, one Adrian L, standing bollock naked in the corner dry heaving with a bucket, all dignity gone.
On our first drill in 64 we knew we were so close to shore as we could hear cattle mooing. On the launch afterwards we real I uses it was a copilot, one Adrian L, standing bollock naked in the corner dry heaving with a bucket, all dignity gone.
The last helicopter escape drill I did was in Perth (Oz) when I was 65. Fairly innocuous as it was in a heated swimming pool which matched the temperature of the sea around Western Australia.
We did the usual roll over and climb out of the back, passenger, department with the bears and then came the pilot's bit.
I was in the left hand seat and we rolled over, stopped and went through the procedure. My oppo in the RHS disappeared but my cockpit door wouldn't open. I then did the sensible thing and exited across the cockpit through the other door.
When I surfaced I got an astronomical bollocking from the floating safety bloke because I had gone the 'wrong way'. I explained that my door was jammed but they had to sit inside whilst they rotated it again to find out the I was right and it had jammed.
I learnt about departing via an alternative exit during my initial helicopter escape training at HMS Vernon in the submarine escape tank.
Such a procedure was not mentioned during the Perth briefing.
We did the usual roll over and climb out of the back, passenger, department with the bears and then came the pilot's bit.
I was in the left hand seat and we rolled over, stopped and went through the procedure. My oppo in the RHS disappeared but my cockpit door wouldn't open. I then did the sensible thing and exited across the cockpit through the other door.
When I surfaced I got an astronomical bollocking from the floating safety bloke because I had gone the 'wrong way'. I explained that my door was jammed but they had to sit inside whilst they rotated it again to find out the I was right and it had jammed.
I learnt about departing via an alternative exit during my initial helicopter escape training at HMS Vernon in the submarine escape tank.
Such a procedure was not mentioned during the Perth briefing.
Recollect that poor chap's heart attack event and the change from overalls to immersion suit in Winter.
On a lighter note, I sometimes thought that the instructional staff took a less than serious view of our travails.
On a lighter note, I sometimes thought that the instructional staff took a less than serious view of our travails.
I remember being told that if you thought you were going to be sick, take a sea sickness tablet. If we thought that we might be sick, take a tablet and if we thought that we wouldn't be sick - take a tablet!
I was probably in the dinghy no more than 15 minutes and it was awful. Kudos to anyone who has survived a long period in a dinghy.
I was probably in the dinghy no more than 15 minutes and it was awful. Kudos to anyone who has survived a long period in a dinghy.
Gentleman Aviator
Just checked my certificate for April 1971 and I see it was signed by a Flt Lt Simon Wright
Which enabled the best putdown of a gobby Junior Pilot that I've ever heard:
"Listen sonny, I've been in more Air Forces than you've been on Squadrons!"
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The tale of the bored bloke in the dinghy that BEagle refers to was true.
The chap concerned ('Scouse' Hughes) was dropped off in the Humber Estuary by the Bridlington Marine Craft Unit (it was a wee while ago) and was left to his own devices awaiting the arrival of the Leconfield Whirlwind.
After a wee while, Scouse 'felt' a coldness in his left foot. A wee while further, the coldness had reached his knee, then his thigh and was dangerously close to his 'manly bits'. Unbeknownst to Scouse, his immersion suit had a tear in the left foot.
Looking about him, and not seeing a helicoptor, Scouse decided to paddle to Spurn Head and let the Lifeboat crew and the Coastguard station know of his problems.
Although the Lifeboat and Coastguard centre were in plain sight, it turned out he had a 5 mile walk/wade through mud and ooze, pulling a dinghy, to get to them.
Once ashore and starting to walk/wade and pull, he spotted the Whirlwind chugging up and down the Estuary. His attempts to attract the attention of the searchers was to no avail.
After an hour of walking/wading/pulling he noticed that the Spurn Lifeboat had also decided to chug up and down the Estuary shortly joined by the Bridlington boat.
After a further hour, he managed to get to the Coastguard station where upon he was told to "Bugger Off" as they were busy co-ordinating a search for a missing airman.
During the subsequent interview 'without coffee' with the Flight Commander, it became apparent the Scouse had not been shown how to activate a training PLB nor had been provided with serviceable flares.
Red faces all around, especially for Scouse who developed a gem of a lobster red suntan thanks to his walking/wading/pulling and sweating like a pig efforts.
The chap concerned ('Scouse' Hughes) was dropped off in the Humber Estuary by the Bridlington Marine Craft Unit (it was a wee while ago) and was left to his own devices awaiting the arrival of the Leconfield Whirlwind.
After a wee while, Scouse 'felt' a coldness in his left foot. A wee while further, the coldness had reached his knee, then his thigh and was dangerously close to his 'manly bits'. Unbeknownst to Scouse, his immersion suit had a tear in the left foot.
Looking about him, and not seeing a helicoptor, Scouse decided to paddle to Spurn Head and let the Lifeboat crew and the Coastguard station know of his problems.
Although the Lifeboat and Coastguard centre were in plain sight, it turned out he had a 5 mile walk/wade through mud and ooze, pulling a dinghy, to get to them.
Once ashore and starting to walk/wade and pull, he spotted the Whirlwind chugging up and down the Estuary. His attempts to attract the attention of the searchers was to no avail.
After an hour of walking/wading/pulling he noticed that the Spurn Lifeboat had also decided to chug up and down the Estuary shortly joined by the Bridlington boat.
After a further hour, he managed to get to the Coastguard station where upon he was told to "Bugger Off" as they were busy co-ordinating a search for a missing airman.
During the subsequent interview 'without coffee' with the Flight Commander, it became apparent the Scouse had not been shown how to activate a training PLB nor had been provided with serviceable flares.
Red faces all around, especially for Scouse who developed a gem of a lobster red suntan thanks to his walking/wading/pulling and sweating like a pig efforts.
Last edited by taxydual; 20th Dec 2017 at 16:38.
FED will remember when the Whirlwinds were all grounded after the QF aircraft crashed due to a gearbox failure, so the Training Flt Cdr ,Roger ,decided we should all go and do the `Dunker` at Vernon,good tick in the box for AOC`s.
After much briefing the first crew were of course ,the Squadron wheels,led by the Boss ,DT,who all seemed to arrive back on the surface,hardly wet,or gasping for breath as they were `helped along by the divers`.
The rest of us were made to wait until all motion of the dunker had stopped inverted,and then undo the harness.One chap came up ,eventually with his shoulder straps around him as the release had jammed and the cable had broken,due to corrosion,and his efforts to get out.
After much briefing the first crew were of course ,the Squadron wheels,led by the Boss ,DT,who all seemed to arrive back on the surface,hardly wet,or gasping for breath as they were `helped along by the divers`.
The rest of us were made to wait until all motion of the dunker had stopped inverted,and then undo the harness.One chap came up ,eventually with his shoulder straps around him as the release had jammed and the cable had broken,due to corrosion,and his efforts to get out.
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Did mine in 96 at St Mawgan. I was very lucky (spawny git allegedly...)
Last into the water, got into my one-man raft and immediately lifted by the lovely Yellow (Sea king) Taxi. The last man - number 24 - spent a few hours in the water.
But got my comeuppance when we were captured on dartmoor. put into the bilge of the Motor Torpedo Boat out of Plymouth until everyone was well and truly sick. Looking back, it was a great month. The CAC was particularly entertaining.
Last into the water, got into my one-man raft and immediately lifted by the lovely Yellow (Sea king) Taxi. The last man - number 24 - spent a few hours in the water.
But got my comeuppance when we were captured on dartmoor. put into the bilge of the Motor Torpedo Boat out of Plymouth until everyone was well and truly sick. Looking back, it was a great month. The CAC was particularly entertaining.