Beam Detection in the Battle of Britain
“Confound and Destroy “ by Martin Streetly is a history of 100 Group and the bomber support campaign. Crucially, it provides an account of Exercise Post Mortem held in Jun/Jul 1945 when a series of exercise were flown against a representative section of the Luftwaffe air defence system; manned by Luftwaffe personnel; to assess 5he effectiveness of Bomber Command tactics and EW equipment.
One of the findings of the analysis of the exercise was that it provided the most striking evidence of the accuracy of the RAF’s electronic intelligence with regard to German radar devices.
YS
One of the findings of the analysis of the exercise was that it provided the most striking evidence of the accuracy of the RAF’s electronic intelligence with regard to German radar devices.
YS
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The Secret History of Silicon Valley
Steve Blank, a Silicon Valey engineer, investor and ex-Air Force tech, wrote an interesting “Secret History of Silicon Valley”. He draws a direct line from wartime work on radar and early EW efforts at government-sponsored university labs to the emergence of the entrepreneurial Silicon Valley “system” of today. Quite enlightening; you can either watch him give a talk here:
youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo
or read the (multi-part) story here:
steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-you-i’d-have-to-kill-you-the-story-behind-the-secret-history-of-silicon-valley/
The WW2 parts seem to be here:
steveblank.com/2009/04/27/the-secret-history-of-silicon-valley-part-vi-the-secret-life-of-fred-terman-and-stanford/
youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo
or read the (multi-part) story here:
steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-you-i’d-have-to-kill-you-the-story-behind-the-secret-history-of-silicon-valley/
The WW2 parts seem to be here:
steveblank.com/2009/04/27/the-secret-history-of-silicon-valley-part-vi-the-secret-life-of-fred-terman-and-stanford/
By all accounts I've heard from people who knew him, he was indeed an all round great guy. It's just a pity that some people, who didn't know him, seem to like to think otherwise.
it's clear that Germany was some way behind the Allies in the field of integrated air defence at the time of the Battle of Britain.
Salute!
So true, Dan.
At the outset, the LW was geared up for offense and static facilities for both planes and electronic systems were not considered. So Freya and Wurzburg were very good for mobile units, unlike what the Brits had. They were also shorter wavelength providing better accuracy for gunlaying.
After some time and giving up on Sea Lion, they defiinitely got better. One thing that demonstrated that were the effective head on passes. That tactic required a good radar track on the buff and a good controller to position the interceptor well enuf ahead to have a chance at lining up. Following passes were no biggie once visual contact had been established.
Gums sends...
So true, Dan.
At the outset, the LW was geared up for offense and static facilities for both planes and electronic systems were not considered. So Freya and Wurzburg were very good for mobile units, unlike what the Brits had. They were also shorter wavelength providing better accuracy for gunlaying.
After some time and giving up on Sea Lion, they defiinitely got better. One thing that demonstrated that were the effective head on passes. That tactic required a good radar track on the buff and a good controller to position the interceptor well enuf ahead to have a chance at lining up. Following passes were no biggie once visual contact had been established.
Gums sends...
Last edited by gums; 23rd Dec 2017 at 12:54. Reason: sp errors
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Dug out my copy of "The Enemy is Listening", so for the OP and, in particular, Cordwainer's Post #19 the full text of that section reads:
"Apart from our responsibility for monitoring Luftwaffe R/T, we also had the task of investigating what we called 'Noises'. These included beam and pulse transmissions from enemy radar, and such signals as high-speed Morse transmissions. In this Reggie Budge and Jonah Jones, who were particularly interested in signals developments in the higher frequencies, worked in close collaboration with No. 80 Wing, TRE and the naval signals specialists. As these higher frequency transmissions have a strictly limited range, we opened up a new HDU at Capel, near Dover, and an attempt was even made in July 1941 to set up a listening watch in a man-carrying balloon to cover decimetre band transmissions which we thought might be connected with the setting up of the beams.
The balloon which was used was an R-type Cacquot of the kind used during the First World War for observation purposes. The ascents were made at night under the expert guidance of Squadron Leader Lord Ventry and Flight Lieutenant John Evason. The principal radio operators involved in this hazardous venture, who spent many airsick hours in a gondola slung beneath the swaying balloon 3000 or 4000 feet above Dover, with air-raids in progress beneath them, were the then Flying Officer Jimmy Mazdon and Pilot Officer Basil Sadler. By coincidence, Sadler was the great grandson of the early English balloonist of the same name. (He was to be killed later during an investigational flight over Western Europe.) The venture was short-lived, as the Air Ministry considered it was too expensive in manpower and they had found a way to operate the receivers in the gondolas by remote control."
Also, for those really interested in early Radar, can I recommend the "Technical History of the Beginnings of Radar" by S.S. Swords, published by the IET.
Messy
"Apart from our responsibility for monitoring Luftwaffe R/T, we also had the task of investigating what we called 'Noises'. These included beam and pulse transmissions from enemy radar, and such signals as high-speed Morse transmissions. In this Reggie Budge and Jonah Jones, who were particularly interested in signals developments in the higher frequencies, worked in close collaboration with No. 80 Wing, TRE and the naval signals specialists. As these higher frequency transmissions have a strictly limited range, we opened up a new HDU at Capel, near Dover, and an attempt was even made in July 1941 to set up a listening watch in a man-carrying balloon to cover decimetre band transmissions which we thought might be connected with the setting up of the beams.
The balloon which was used was an R-type Cacquot of the kind used during the First World War for observation purposes. The ascents were made at night under the expert guidance of Squadron Leader Lord Ventry and Flight Lieutenant John Evason. The principal radio operators involved in this hazardous venture, who spent many airsick hours in a gondola slung beneath the swaying balloon 3000 or 4000 feet above Dover, with air-raids in progress beneath them, were the then Flying Officer Jimmy Mazdon and Pilot Officer Basil Sadler. By coincidence, Sadler was the great grandson of the early English balloonist of the same name. (He was to be killed later during an investigational flight over Western Europe.) The venture was short-lived, as the Air Ministry considered it was too expensive in manpower and they had found a way to operate the receivers in the gondolas by remote control."
Also, for those really interested in early Radar, can I recommend the "Technical History of the Beginnings of Radar" by S.S. Swords, published by the IET.
Messy
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Thank you for the precise reply to my original request for help. It was not the source I had seen, and which I am still trying to locate, but your information is much better.
I am surprised that the information in such a well researched area is not generally known.
I am indebted to you.
Merry Christmas.
I am surprised that the information in such a well researched area is not generally known.
I am indebted to you.
Merry Christmas.
The RAF Historical Society did a seminar about the history of EW in the RAF which has some quite interesting views about the effectiveness of 80 wing and 100 Group during WWII, plus RAF EW efforts afterwards. Link Below.
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...ic-Warfare.pdf
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...ic-Warfare.pdf
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My father met the great man and was in awe of him. He does seem to be arrogant in the book, but it's just his scientists way of objective observation. He was correct - most of the time and had little time for those he saw as deliberately obstructive. When he was wrong only a couple of occasions, then he was man enough to admit it.
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Thanks for putting the link up to the BBC documentary.
Had me immersed for several hours. Not just the beams but other stuff on magnetic mines.
Amazing what could be deduced from the wreckage of the German bombers and their radio equipment. The standard of work on the sets was phenomenal for the day. Watched a follow on about secret listeners. It would have been made in the 70s when the work of Bletchley was still secret.
Had me immersed for several hours. Not just the beams but other stuff on magnetic mines.
Amazing what could be deduced from the wreckage of the German bombers and their radio equipment. The standard of work on the sets was phenomenal for the day. Watched a follow on about secret listeners. It would have been made in the 70s when the work of Bletchley was still secret.
dragartist I agree with your comment on 'The Secret Listeners', but for the life of me I can't recall the name of the presenter - his voice and face are very familiar ... hey hoe
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Yes that’s him. Not sure of his local pronunciation of Hunst’n where an early listening station was set up to look over the North Sea and take very accurate bearings. I guess other stations may have been on line to triangulate.
When it comes to writing post war history I fear the information in the archives will not be available. I know when EWAU moved to Waddington lots was thrown away. Including all the 90 Gp mircrofilm drawings. Then when they closed the lot went. I tried to recover some Falklands era stuff to support a paper I was writing. All the files had been destroyed.
When it comes to writing post war history I fear the information in the archives will not be available. I know when EWAU moved to Waddington lots was thrown away. Including all the 90 Gp mircrofilm drawings. Then when they closed the lot went. I tried to recover some Falklands era stuff to support a paper I was writing. All the files had been destroyed.
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Yes that’s him. Not sure of his local pronunciation of Hunst’n where an early listening station was set up to look over the North Sea and take very accurate bearings. I guess other stations may have been on line to triangulate.
When it comes to writing post war history I fear the information in the archives will not be available. I know when EWAU moved to Waddington lots was thrown away. Including all the 90 Gp mircrofilm drawings. Then when they closed the lot went. I tried to recover some Falklands era stuff to support a paper I was writing. All the files had been destroyed.
When it comes to writing post war history I fear the information in the archives will not be available. I know when EWAU moved to Waddington lots was thrown away. Including all the 90 Gp mircrofilm drawings. Then when they closed the lot went. I tried to recover some Falklands era stuff to support a paper I was writing. All the files had been destroyed.
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Supersonic flow...
The Concorde aerodynamicist was Prof Ted Talbot, he was indeed the leading light in the design and refinement of the engine inlets that made the supersonic cruise possible.
The B-1A inlets were angled in 2 axes whereas on Concorde the angling was in 1 axis only. That made the difference in terms of finding a workable solution to the problem. The B-1B inlets were redesigned to hide the engine compressor faces from radar so there was some advantage to the difficulty of getting the original inlet configuration to work.
The B-1A inlets were angled in 2 axes whereas on Concorde the angling was in 1 axis only. That made the difference in terms of finding a workable solution to the problem. The B-1B inlets were redesigned to hide the engine compressor faces from radar so there was some advantage to the difficulty of getting the original inlet configuration to work.
