European Army
Crimea is the start of Russian expansion. Georgia is the model for how they will take over all the previous USSR vassal states. If European governments seriously think that the US will draw a line in the sand and spend the kind of blood and treasure it will take to defend them they are seriously deluded.
Putin rightly sees weakness in Western Europe and will take as much advantage as those Western European states will let him. As currently envisioned the “European Army” has no credibility as a check on Russian expansionism.
Putin rightly sees weakness in Western Europe and will take as much advantage as those Western European states will let him. As currently envisioned the “European Army” has no credibility as a check on Russian expansionism.
Really, these countries all have sub replacement birth rates. Any politician with an IQ higher than a decimal fraction can see that space is not the problem,.it is having people.
Sadly that is a tough problem, nobody has solved it, not the Chinese, not the Japanese, not anyone in Europe, now reduced to importing African 'refugees' to shore up their collapsing demographics.
Russia is a giant country with a tiny economy relying on energy exports. EU is their biggest trading partner. Barking dogs don’t bite...
Feel free to learn the same lessons over and over, but please waste your own younger generations.
BEAMR makes a good point - if Russia wasn't a threat I doubt that their neighbours would be trying to shelter under the NATO umbrella - Finland and Sweden show its possible
Showing a bit of empathy, and looking at it from Russia’s POV, the 20th century wasn’t exactly kind to it. Admittedly, some self inflicted and some the result of expansionist neighbours. I do also wonder had Allied POW’s been treated like Soviet POW’s whether we would have more suspicions towards certain EU and/or NATO members.
IMHO, what we in the West forget is that certain countries have longer memories than the short termist West. I’m thinking of China in particular, and they don’t seem to forgive or forget as readily as the West. I would like to think that we have Russia and Sinophiles embedded in the Foreign Office and US/EU equivalents , but judging by recent UK foreign policies, I can only believe that the UK foreign policy is run by the editor of the Daily Mail.
IMHO, what we in the West forget is that certain countries have longer memories than the short termist West. I’m thinking of China in particular, and they don’t seem to forgive or forget as readily as the West. I would like to think that we have Russia and Sinophiles embedded in the Foreign Office and US/EU equivalents , but judging by recent UK foreign policies, I can only believe that the UK foreign policy is run by the editor of the Daily Mail.
To Geordie_Expat
I'm 68 years old and I know what I'm talking about. I was born and raised in the Moscow region, and worked all my life as a Tower controller in Moscow.
I'm 68 years old and I know what I'm talking about. I was born and raised in the Moscow region, and worked all my life as a Tower controller in Moscow.
prove one piece of evidence to show coercion please
So in your opinion Russia has done nothing that would scare the neighboring countries? Everything is just NATO propaganda? Like the little green men vacating in Ukraine?
Or MH17?
Or MH17?
Meanwhile on topic regarding the european army it is very hard to see it happening as all the EU countries are in different position and capability of defending them selves. If looking at the ones outside of NATO, The Swedes woke up a few years ago and they are now investing to catch up two decades of eroding defence system. The Finns have been awake the whole time to make it as costly as possible for an intruder. And for a very good reason:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/w...-military.html
So we have EU in which everyone has different equipment and different capabilities, so I really can't see the formation of EU army.
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NATO was created not by Europe, but by America, and the brighter it burns here, the more America will rejoice. Who bombed Yugoslavia in 1999? Maybe Russia or France or England or someone else?
Everyone has his own opinion and NATO (USA) has it`s own too. In order to increase military spending, it is necessary that the society itself asks for this. That's why two James Bonds were invented (Petrov and Bashirov), which intimidated all of Europe. I wonder what will happen if the Red Army comes there?
Everyone has his own opinion and NATO (USA) has it`s own too. In order to increase military spending, it is necessary that the society itself asks for this. That's why two James Bonds were invented (Petrov and Bashirov), which intimidated all of Europe. I wonder what will happen if the Red Army comes there?
On 4 March 1947, the Treaty of Dunkirk was signed by France and the UK as a Treaty of Alliance and Mutual Assistance in the event of a possible attack by Germany or the Soviet Union in the aftermath of WW2. In 1948, this alliance was expanded to include the Benelux countries, in the form of the Western Union, also referred to as the Brussels Treaty Organization (BTO), established by the Treaty of Brussels. Talks for a new military alliance, which could also include North America, resulted in the signature of the North Atlantic Treaty on 4 April 1949 by the member states of the Western Union plus the United States, Canada, Portugal, Italy, Norway, Denmark and Iceland.
So it was created by diplomacy, discussion, and cooperation, not the hand of oppression like the Warsaw Pact.
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An EU Army can’t happen overnight, that is why they should plan ahead together. Instead of buying different equipment, having different procedures etc.
minigundiplomat: I am all in favour of spending a 2 percent minimum for every NATO member. But you make it sound as Putin will march underneath the Champs Elysees tomorrow.
This is exactly what is the problem and why the EU should develop their militaries together. Now you have 27 inefficient militaries who all do everything separately.
An EU Army can’t happen overnight, that is why they should plan ahead together. Instead of buying different equipment, having different procedures etc.
minigundiplomat: I am all in favour of spending a 2 percent minimum for every NATO member. But you make it sound as Putin will march underneath the Champs Elysees tomorrow.
An EU Army can’t happen overnight, that is why they should plan ahead together. Instead of buying different equipment, having different procedures etc.
minigundiplomat: I am all in favour of spending a 2 percent minimum for every NATO member. But you make it sound as Putin will march underneath the Champs Elysees tomorrow.
Short of a nuclear response, what militarily stops him from doing so?
Ok, I give up....
Is it the current military alliance withe the US, UK and Canada?
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Putin can’t afford a war with a GDP the size of the Benelux. And he can’t definitely afford to start a war with a member of a trading bloc that is his biggest trading partner by far.
nevertheless like I said to you many times already. I’m all for NATO and the minimum of spending 2 percent. But all your arguments against an EU Army are actually arguments in favour of one.
nevertheless like I said to you many times already. I’m all for NATO and the minimum of spending 2 percent. But all your arguments against an EU Army are actually arguments in favour of one.
However, I do have issues with kids from Dorset or Michigan, Brisbane or Alberta dying in the defence of Europe when it all goes wrong. So, if you really want your army club, it needs to be an 'instead of' NATO rather than some halfway house where you squander billions on homemade hardware selected for the country of manufacture and then run to the US, UK and Commonwealth when it turns to sh1t. I don't think that's an unfair ask?
