European Army
I guess sitting in Asia Pacific you'd be quite happy having Mr Putin sitting right across from Dover?
How long do you think he'd stay there? The genius of the English long term strategy is that all the fighting, and most of the combatants are kept in Europe, not at home
And the EU countries (forget Europort) is still Britain biggest customer by a country mile
How long do you think he'd stay there? The genius of the English long term strategy is that all the fighting, and most of the combatants are kept in Europe, not at home
And the EU countries (forget Europort) is still Britain biggest customer by a country mile
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"Why should the UK come to the aid (and vice-versa) of Europe should it be necessary in the future"
Well
a) its 22 miles away - sadly true, but across water that has held petty dictators at bay in the past (all of whom have been European....)
b) 43% of UK exports go there - no longer true, and even when it was, included exports routed to non-EU countries via Europort.
c) ever since Tudor times the English have fought to stop one country ruling Europe - possibly true, but no longer a sustainable strategy now the eurotrash all want to be one country.
other than that I guess there's no reason at all...........................
If the Russians invaded Europe, I would pour a beer, grab some popcorn and watch the show from the white cliffs of Dover.
Well
a) its 22 miles away - sadly true, but across water that has held petty dictators at bay in the past (all of whom have been European....)
b) 43% of UK exports go there - no longer true, and even when it was, included exports routed to non-EU countries via Europort.
c) ever since Tudor times the English have fought to stop one country ruling Europe - possibly true, but no longer a sustainable strategy now the eurotrash all want to be one country.
other than that I guess there's no reason at all...........................
If the Russians invaded Europe, I would pour a beer, grab some popcorn and watch the show from the white cliffs of Dover.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasi..._British_Isles
But yes, not in "modern times".... but honestly, there should be a reason to go there.... and I really can't find any.....
Yeah but the last successful invasion was a quite a while ago............................ the Scots kept on trying but even they seem to want to leave now.......... 
You seem to think that it doesn't matter to the UK what happens in Europe. A quick look at any news feed will show issues with trade, with certification (just look on here for the shambles re certifying UK pilots etc) ,with illegal immigration, with fishing, with national security - all these things have to be dealt with as partners, not as some sort of Little Englander - especially ones who don't live in the UK
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You seem to think that it doesn't matter to the UK what happens in Europe. A quick look at any news feed will show issues with trade, with certification (just look on here for the shambles re certifying UK pilots etc) ,with illegal immigration, with fishing, with national security - all these things have to be dealt with as partners, not as some sort of Little Englander - especially ones who don't live in the UK
Hundreds of thousands of troops from across the Commonwealth have died saving Europe from itself, many didn’t live in the UK; my Grandfather landed on the beach at Normandy and I served over 20 years in the UK military, so my location is irrelevant and I don’t need your approval to comment.
This being a military forum, I’ll explain using those terms. The EU has a nice flag, a currency, anthem and policies for every situation, and I get it, you all love each other and want to be the new USA. Good luck to you.
What you don’t have is any military weight, and neither are you prepared to invest in such. Military equipment is a horse trade on who gets what share of the booty. You don’t invest and very few allocate the NATO minimum. Trump was wrong about many things, but when it came to many EU members being defence and security freeloaders, he was spot on.
And so, when the EU’s ambition outstrips capability, it will go horribly wrong. Ukraine is a prime example of EU miscalculation in foreign policy, and possibly a portent of future mis-steps. When it does go wrong, I will crack a beer and watch as you all shove the might of the Luxembourg and Belgian militaries to the front.
The idea of some EU Army holding back the Russians is pure fantasy, and as usual, you’ll look to the US, UK and Commonwealth to bail you out - again. I will be melting marshmallows on the fire, amigo,
This being a military forum, I’ll explain using those terms. The EU has a nice flag, a currency, anthem and policies for every situation, and I get it, you all love each other and want to be the new USA. Good luck to you.
What you don’t have is any military weight, and neither are you prepared to invest in such. Military equipment is a horse trade on who gets what share of the booty. You don’t invest and very few allocate the NATO minimum. Trump was wrong about many things, but when it came to many EU members being defence and security freeloaders, he was spot on.
And so, when the EU’s ambition outstrips capability, it will go horribly wrong. Ukraine is a prime example of EU miscalculation in foreign policy, and possibly a portent of future mis-steps. When it does go wrong, I will crack a beer and watch as you all shove the might of the Luxembourg and Belgian militaries to the front.
The idea of some EU Army holding back the Russians is pure fantasy, and as usual, you’ll look to the US, UK and Commonwealth to bail you out - again. I will be melting marshmallows on the fire, amigo,
What you don’t have is any military weight, and neither are you prepared to invest in such. Military equipment is a horse trade on who gets what share of the booty. You don’t invest and very few allocate the NATO minimum. Trump was wrong about many things, but when it came to many EU members being defence and security freeloaders, he was spot on.
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https://www.statista.com/statistics/...tary-spending/
I agree with you that ALL NATO member states should fulfill their NATO 2 percent mark. But as you might well know, not all EU members are in NATO.
At the moment all this different Forces with different material, procedures, training etc is far from efficient. There is a long road to a EU army however, you could first streamline all of the above and do the procurement together. Only this would highly increase the efficiency. But Rome wasn’t build in one day.
Also BREXIT and the associated 50B military budget That disappeared with it together with the election of Donald has shown the necessity of a more streamlined military of the EU26. But this will take time obviously.
personally I am not overly worried for a Russian invasion as the EU is Russia’s biggest trade partner. Far more trade is being done with the EU then with China for instance. Probably as most of the Russians live in the west. And you tend to trade more with your neighbors.
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As I've remarked in other places, compare the map of Europe from 1990 and the present day... the front-line between NATO and Russia (nee the Warsaw Pact) has moved east by a few hundred miles - yet Comrade Putin is made out to be the aggressor!
Hundreds of thousands of troops from across the Commonwealth have died saving Europe from itself, many didn’t live in the UK; my Grandfather landed on the beach at Normandy and I served over 20 years in the UK military, so my location is irrelevant and I don’t need your approval to comment.
This being a military forum, I’ll explain using those terms. The EU has a nice flag, a currency, anthem and policies for every situation, and I get it, you all love each other and want to be the new USA. Good luck to you.
What you don’t have is any military weight, and neither are you prepared to invest in such. Military equipment is a horse trade on who gets what share of the booty. You don’t invest and very few allocate the NATO minimum. Trump was wrong about many things, but when it came to many EU members being defence and security freeloaders, he was spot on.
And so, when the EU’s ambition outstrips capability, it will go horribly wrong. Ukraine is a prime example of EU miscalculation in foreign policy, and possibly a portent of future mis-steps. When it does go wrong, I will crack a beer and watch as you all shove the might of the Luxembourg and Belgian militaries to the front.
The idea of some EU Army holding back the Russians is pure fantasy, and as usual, you’ll look to the US, UK and Commonwealth to bail you out - again. I will be melting marshmallows on the fire, amigo,
This being a military forum, I’ll explain using those terms. The EU has a nice flag, a currency, anthem and policies for every situation, and I get it, you all love each other and want to be the new USA. Good luck to you.
What you don’t have is any military weight, and neither are you prepared to invest in such. Military equipment is a horse trade on who gets what share of the booty. You don’t invest and very few allocate the NATO minimum. Trump was wrong about many things, but when it came to many EU members being defence and security freeloaders, he was spot on.
And so, when the EU’s ambition outstrips capability, it will go horribly wrong. Ukraine is a prime example of EU miscalculation in foreign policy, and possibly a portent of future mis-steps. When it does go wrong, I will crack a beer and watch as you all shove the might of the Luxembourg and Belgian militaries to the front.
The idea of some EU Army holding back the Russians is pure fantasy, and as usual, you’ll look to the US, UK and Commonwealth to bail you out - again. I will be melting marshmallows on the fire, amigo,
Hundreds of thousands of troops from across the Commonwealth have died saving Europe from itself, many didn’t live in the UK; my Grandfather landed on the beach at Normandy and I served over 20 years in the UK military, so my location is irrelevant and I don’t need your approval to comment.
This being a military forum, I’ll explain using those terms. The EU has a nice flag, a currency, anthem and policies for every situation, and I get it, you all love each other and want to be the new USA. Good luck to you.
What you don’t have is any military weight, and neither are you prepared to invest in such. Military equipment is a horse trade on who gets what share of the booty. You don’t invest and very few allocate the NATO minimum. Trump was wrong about many things, but when it came to many EU members being defence and security freeloaders, he was spot on.
And so, when the EU’s ambition outstrips capability, it will go horribly wrong. Ukraine is a prime example of EU miscalculation in foreign policy, and possibly a portent of future mis-steps. When it does go wrong, I will crack a beer and watch as you all shove the might of the Luxembourg and Belgian militaries to the front.
The idea of some EU Army holding back the Russians is pure fantasy, and as usual, you’ll look to the US, UK and Commonwealth to bail you out - again. I will be melting marshmallows on the fire, amigo,
This being a military forum, I’ll explain using those terms. The EU has a nice flag, a currency, anthem and policies for every situation, and I get it, you all love each other and want to be the new USA. Good luck to you.
What you don’t have is any military weight, and neither are you prepared to invest in such. Military equipment is a horse trade on who gets what share of the booty. You don’t invest and very few allocate the NATO minimum. Trump was wrong about many things, but when it came to many EU members being defence and security freeloaders, he was spot on.
And so, when the EU’s ambition outstrips capability, it will go horribly wrong. Ukraine is a prime example of EU miscalculation in foreign policy, and possibly a portent of future mis-steps. When it does go wrong, I will crack a beer and watch as you all shove the might of the Luxembourg and Belgian militaries to the front.
The idea of some EU Army holding back the Russians is pure fantasy, and as usual, you’ll look to the US, UK and Commonwealth to bail you out - again. I will be melting marshmallows on the fire, amigo,
You appear to have never heard of something called NATO...
You appear to have never heard of something called NATO..
if you add up all the defense budgets of the EU27 it is around 190B, only less then US and China. France and Germany spend around the same as the UK. And as you might be living in the past, the UK’s military is not exactly the might it used to be in the early 1900’s
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The 190B figure is complete 'whataboutery' - NATO defence spending is measured in % of GDP, as you later note. If Germany is a paragon of military expenditure, why is their military currently a laughing stock (other than having had VDL as Defence Minister perhaps.....).
. Why invent the same wheel 27 times? Using “Eurotrash” in a civilized discussion and bring on wars that happened before you were even born comes over very immature btw.
You don’t buy material with a percentage of GDP so it is actually the percentage that is “whataboutery”. Compared to the US and China ALL European military, UK’s included, is to laugh about. That is the whole reason behind the development of further EU military integration. Thank you for agreeing with me . Why invent the same wheel 27 times?
Using “Eurotrash” in a civilized discussion and bring on wars that happened before you were even born comes over very immature btw.
. Why invent the same wheel 27 times?Using “Eurotrash” in a civilized discussion and bring on wars that happened before you were even born comes over very immature btw.
You don’t buy material with a percentage of GDP so it is actually the percentage that is “whataboutery”. Compared to the US and China ALL European military, UK’s included, is to laugh about. That is the whole reason behind the development of further EU military integration. Thank you for agreeing with me . Why invent the same wheel 27 times?
Using “Eurotrash” in a civilized discussion and bring on wars that happened before you were even born comes over very immature btw.
. Why invent the same wheel 27 times?Using “Eurotrash” in a civilized discussion and bring on wars that happened before you were even born comes over very immature btw.
As for your last point, I don't believe we live in a world (yet) where I can't pick my preferred collective noun for EU members. On the issue of past wars, there is a trend which you are free to ignore or talk around if you wish, but I take it you also object to the use of legal precedents?
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You use the figure of combined EU defence spending of 190b; 2% of EU GDP is 360b which is why I drew your attention to the percentage of GDP because that's the expectation of membership for NATO. My point has never been that the EU shouldn't get some tanks, plenty of badges and a French general and start their own Army club, I'm all for it. It's that they shouldn't expect others to pull them out the sh1t when it invariably goes wrong.
As for your last point, I don't believe we live in a world (yet) where I can't pick my preferred collective noun for EU members. On the issue of past wars, there is a trend which you are free to ignore or talk around if you wish, but I take it you also object to the use of legal precedents?
As for your last point, I don't believe we live in a world (yet) where I can't pick my preferred collective noun for EU members. On the issue of past wars, there is a trend which you are free to ignore or talk around if you wish, but I take it you also object to the use of legal precedents?
that “trend” you like to bring up. If anything the EU has been actually quite successful in helping to break that trend. An EU army wil not, if ever, be created overnight. The point is mainly to further integrate and streamline the 27 forces to make it much more efficient. I personally do not care much if a General is French or even German, as long as he (or she) is capable. But as opposed to you, I don’t still live in WW2. Tell me, why should it invariably go wrong?
You can call me Eurotrash as you like. If that makes you feel better.. I think calling names is something you did in school and in a civilized discussion it sounds extremely childish for a 50 year old on an anonymous internet forum.