European Army
I think it is rather laughable that for the majority of its existence NATO has made a huge contribution to peace in Europe, and many European countries have sheltered under the umbrella of the USA and to a lesser degree the UK and France (outside of NATO for a long time) and have not put their short arms in their very deep pockets to share the financial burden, yet now 27 countries are going to form an army. Who is going to put up the money, because going on past performance they might just actually have enough shekels to buy a nice limousine or two for the top bods to drive around the EU inspecting the vanity project.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...centenary-tour
Maxron calls for ‘real European army at start of war centenary tour
Emmanuel Macron has used the first world war armistice centenary commemorations to call for a “real” European army, warning that rising nationalism and populism threaten the fragile peace on the continent
https://www.westmonster.com/verhofst...-into-eu-army/
Verhofstadt: Integrate European defences into EU Army
The European Parliament’s ‘Brexit Coordinator’ and senior MEP, Guy Verhofstadt, has backed President Macron’s call for a full EU Army.
Verhofstadt has gone one step further however, demanding that existing defences forces across Europe are ‘integrated’ into a European Army – making the point with an EU flag bang next to the suggestion, of course.
Writing on Twitter, the EU nationalist said: “President Macron draws the right conclusions from Trump’s ‘America-First’ policy. If we want to guarantee our European security, we need to take our destiny into our own hands by progressively integrating European defence forces into a European Army.”
Because it could weaken NATO at a time when the USA has an unpredictable president and the Russian Federation are still in the Crime under a dubious pretext.
I still can't quite compute why it is apparently good for EU member states to commit to participating more in NATO, yet bad for them to be thinking of organising their own defence outwith of NATO (especially in light of Trump's comments). TBH I wouldn't be at all surprised if Trump really ratchets up the rhetoric on NATO given his thoughts are now turning to 2020, also the Asia pivot.
dp:-
I think that by seeing the USA as a potential enemy for the 'real' EU Army to deal with, Macron encapsulates exactly what this is all about; an EU Army to confront NATO, not to complement it.
TBH I wouldn't be at all surprised if Trump really ratchets up the rhetoric on NATO
If Macron and Co think that they have a big stick to play with I'm pretty certain they will be disappointed, and the UK would be stupid to get involved.
mmw:-
Well exactly, that's probably how the 'real' EU Army will be used to confront NATO, by undermining any support from its European members. We await the inevitable EU demand that all US Forces be removed from its territory. No doubt the US government will once again be obliged to query if that includes those buried there...
That makes absolutely no sense, as most of the members would also be members of NATO.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Curious... I recall Nick Clegg telling us during the Referendum Campaign, in no uncertain terms, that the prospect of an EU army, airforce and navy was “total fantasy and that "the impending arrival of an EU army is about as fictional as that vanishing £350 million".
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnis...ises-350m-nhs/
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnis...ises-350m-nhs/
Curious... I recall Nick Clegg telling us during the Referendum Campaign, in no uncertain terms, that the prospect of an EU army, airforce and navy was “total fantasy and that "the impending arrival of an EU army is about as fictional as that vanishing £350 million".
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnis...ises-350m-nhs/
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnis...ises-350m-nhs/
This would be Sir Nicholas William Peter Clegg
of "I agree with Nick" blessed memory.
To be fair, to cast him as a SH1T hardly makes him unique. Name me a current UK politician who commands widespread respect for integrity, honesty and probity.
See?
of "I agree with Nick" blessed memory.
To be fair, to cast him as a SH1T hardly makes him unique. Name me a current UK politician who commands widespread respect for integrity, honesty and probity.
See?
Would there be the political will amongst member states to deploy the troops? Can’t help but reflect back on the inaction by European governments to act in the Balkans in the 90s until Clinton forced their hands.
EU army or internal police force ?With NATO having kept Europe’s external security since WW2 the only reason for an EU army can be one of internal security, it would make it impossible for a state to leave the EU and can be used to put down any opposition to the EU.
This is a very worrisome trend towards totalitarian control of Europe.
This is a very worrisome trend towards totalitarian control of Europe.
Come on guys! get real..
No-one is going to spend a whole lot more on the military in Europe
They'll form a "European Army" and it will employ a few staff guys and be a useful spot to dump moribund officers at the end of their careers..... and it will be located somewhere where they need the votes
Units currently "declared" to NATO will also be "declared" to the EU Army. Once or twice a year there'll be some maneuvers where the French & German politicians will turn up, be photographed and everyone will go home
In Italy we still fondly remember the Terzo corpo designato d'Armata
"Though commanded by a real Lieutenant General, headquartered in Padua, Italy's so-called Terzo corpo designato d'Armata was a fiction - a giant cold-war bluff. It was dreamed up in the early 50s to convince Moscow that Nato's frontline was altogether more solid than was the case. Successive commanders and their minuscule staffs generated mountains of paperwork to show that any commie troops breaching the Yugoslav border would have to reckon with an entire army corps, up to 300,000-strong, on the flat Venetian hinterland. Troops - most of them imaginary - were recruited and promoted, fuel was notionally stored, and ammunition supposedly distributed in perhaps the most elaborate exercise ever in Italian fantasia."
No-one is going to spend a whole lot more on the military in Europe
They'll form a "European Army" and it will employ a few staff guys and be a useful spot to dump moribund officers at the end of their careers..... and it will be located somewhere where they need the votes
Units currently "declared" to NATO will also be "declared" to the EU Army. Once or twice a year there'll be some maneuvers where the French & German politicians will turn up, be photographed and everyone will go home
In Italy we still fondly remember the Terzo corpo designato d'Armata
"Though commanded by a real Lieutenant General, headquartered in Padua, Italy's so-called Terzo corpo designato d'Armata was a fiction - a giant cold-war bluff. It was dreamed up in the early 50s to convince Moscow that Nato's frontline was altogether more solid than was the case. Successive commanders and their minuscule staffs generated mountains of paperwork to show that any commie troops breaching the Yugoslav border would have to reckon with an entire army corps, up to 300,000-strong, on the flat Venetian hinterland. Troops - most of them imaginary - were recruited and promoted, fuel was notionally stored, and ammunition supposedly distributed in perhaps the most elaborate exercise ever in Italian fantasia."
Thanks for the reassurance As56. More such from the tail end of ORAC's link:-
One must be grateful for small mercies.
With Merkel on her way out, fixing the Bundeswehr will likely be up to her successor. Until then, plans for a “European Army” that includes Germany have about as much chance of getting off the ground as the German Air Force.
One must be grateful for small mercies.
Of course the worst thing about the Terzo Corpo came later.......... no-one was ever sure the Russians fell for it given the penetration of the CPI in Italian life but you never know.
It was closed down in 1972 - unfortunately they forgot about two issues - Paperwork 1 & paperwork 2
The diligent few had, as required , generated a mountain of paperwork as only Italians can when they put their mind to it. This was all carefully stored - by the late 80's the cost was becoming noticeable and it was proposed to shred it all. However of course it was all classified information. To shred it you had to declassify it - and who could sign off the declassification? Only the people who classified it in the first place - but these were either dead or never existed................... (I once came across this sort of thing with a Company Bank Account in Rome.... months of fun)..............................
Paperwork 2 was Pensions & Benefits... those "real " people who served were of course given all the relevant pensions etc etc - the problem was the couple of hundred thousand "unreal" people who were on the books... as part of the maskirova they had all got pensions, even been awarded medals, featured in the newspapers etc etc - and worse they were all on the books of several other Ministries who had processed them thinking they actually DID exist. It is/was impossible to remove their benefits without a major legislation, which would also set an unfortunate precedent.
We were assured that none of these "pensions" had actually ever been paid but being Italy the natives feel it was unlikely that such a vast sum would be allowed to go to waste on the books as it were... who knows........
It was closed down in 1972 - unfortunately they forgot about two issues - Paperwork 1 & paperwork 2
The diligent few had, as required , generated a mountain of paperwork as only Italians can when they put their mind to it. This was all carefully stored - by the late 80's the cost was becoming noticeable and it was proposed to shred it all. However of course it was all classified information. To shred it you had to declassify it - and who could sign off the declassification? Only the people who classified it in the first place - but these were either dead or never existed................... (I once came across this sort of thing with a Company Bank Account in Rome.... months of fun)..............................
Paperwork 2 was Pensions & Benefits... those "real " people who served were of course given all the relevant pensions etc etc - the problem was the couple of hundred thousand "unreal" people who were on the books... as part of the maskirova they had all got pensions, even been awarded medals, featured in the newspapers etc etc - and worse they were all on the books of several other Ministries who had processed them thinking they actually DID exist. It is/was impossible to remove their benefits without a major legislation, which would also set an unfortunate precedent.
We were assured that none of these "pensions" had actually ever been paid but being Italy the natives feel it was unlikely that such a vast sum would be allowed to go to waste on the books as it were... who knows........
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-...ier/a-47860895
Angela Merkel backs plan for EU aircraft carrier
Angela Merkel has voiced support for some major aspects of CDU leader Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer's EU vision. The proposals include a joint European aircraft carrier and a permanent EU seat on the Security Council.
Angela Merkel backs plan for EU aircraft carrier
Angela Merkel has voiced support for some major aspects of CDU leader Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer's EU vision. The proposals include a joint European aircraft carrier and a permanent EU seat on the Security Council.
AKK is Merkel's clone/puppet choice so no surprises there