European Army
Nor will they, or should I say, should they, have any influence over us. Our relations with the EU, we are entitled to expect to be as accommodating as if we were Switzerland. Any attempt to treat us different would be a further indication of how far from influential we would have been trying to have our voice heard by the tin ears of Germany and France and the like, if we'd remained. After all, it seems increasingly clear that the remain lobby did indeed lie like an old mattress by telling us that there was no agenda to create a single or federation of states. Of course there was all along, we would have had to swallow a hell of a lot more pride being a component part of what is, and will continue to be, a Bureaucratic nightmare. The Euro Army (Armed Forces) will have no work cut out for it in particular, it will be titular and political, to plonk the EU flag firmly on the defence policies of all member states.
FB
FB
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Do the citizens whose armed forces are being removed from national control and handed over to the EU get a say in all this? My guess is they will just be told that it's now a requirement of EU membership so it's none of their business. And where does that leave the 'neutral' countries; Austria, Ireland and Malta? Will they be obliged to join in, or will they be given an opt-out and be seen by the rest as freeloaders?
If the source is the Daisy Telegraph and it relates to the EU it is unlikely to be true . In any case if there is a Euro army it will be in Nato , we are in NATO and Europe so we will just have to go along regardless.
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Do the citizens whose armed forces are being removed from national control and handed over to the EU get a say in all this? My guess is they will just be told that it's now a requirement of EU membership so it's none of their business. And where does that leave the 'neutral' countries; Austria, Ireland and Malta? Will they be obliged to join in, or will they be given an opt-out and be seen by the rest as freeloaders?
Again, what the EU chooses to do is the business solely of the EU. It doesnt concern us anymore.
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What work have British forces "cut out for them in particular"? Sitting around waiting for the next war is the most likely definition of all armed forces.
Please elaborate on how the British Armed Forces are not political. How would you describe them as not "political"? What else is the military? Non-political?
What work have British forces "cut out for them in particular"? Sitting around waiting for the next war is the most likely definition of all armed forces.
What work have British forces "cut out for them in particular"? Sitting around waiting for the next war is the most likely definition of all armed forces.
FB
HM Forces like the armed forces of all countries are an arm of the state. In a democracy, such as we are supposed to have, they are not political, they take their orders from the elected government. As for the "EU army", the idea behind it, in my opinion, is a political move, in order to help solidify the EU as a single nation in due course. Its existence otherwise has no point, not with NATO, it would introduce a competing command and control structure which the very same armed forces, in some cases, would be reporting to. An Eu force, finally, will have no real goal because every operation they will commit to will be under the oversight of NATO, unless you're happy with somebody on the continent ordering HM forces into harm's way at the same time overriding what would be left of Westminster, assuming we had remained of course. Here's a thought for you, if we had remained in the EU and had joined the Euro army. You would have to admit that eventually all orders would come from the Brussels Euro HQ. Should the Falklands be faced with another emergency, say another Argentinian threat of invasion, do you honestly imagine that we could with ease, leave the security of the Falkland Islanders to the resolve of the EU. Anyway, that's it from me on this subject before some gives me a rollocking for thread drift.
FB
FB
As for the Falklands, leaving the EU has weakened its security not strengthened it. The EEC stood with the UK on 1982, would the EU now?
This is a discussion about an EU army, I did not mention the UK because as you observe, it is no longer the UK's direct concern. Your example of the UN is meaningless, since whilst any forces assigned to such duties are under the temporary operational control of the UN, they remain fully part of their own nation's armed forces. The same is true of national forces taking part in NATO operations and exercises. The alleged plan to permanently and irrevocably transfer control of the separate national forces of EU nations into a single force under the sole control of the EU, such that it would then be impossible for member countries to use their forces unilaterally in their own interests is something entirely different. It constitutes a very major change in the status of the nations concerned, something not mentioned in any existing EU Treaty, and surely deserving of a democratic mandate.
Please elaborate on how the British Armed Forces are not political. How would you describe them as not "political"? What else is the military? Non-political?
What work have British forces "cut out for them in particular"? Sitting around waiting for the next war is the most likely definition of all armed forces.
What work have British forces "cut out for them in particular"? Sitting around waiting for the next war is the most likely definition of all armed forces.
I am aware of Clausewitz:
, “war is not merely a political act but a real political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse, a carrying out of the same by other means,” (On War (1943), pp. 280). That is to say, war is one means of political intercourse, characterized by military force, to accomplish political ends.
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Also when the balloon does go up, who do people generally call for? The Americans. Could that possibly because they're stronger? and if so, could that be because they're a collection of fifty sovereign entities united under one federal umbrella? ...and had they not joined together, would there even still be an America, or would it have been a continual inter-state conflict? and if THAT had happened, what would WWII have looked like?
I never really understood this point of view. We were the third largest block so were very influential inside the EU. In fact We voted For 95% of the time, Abstained 3% of the time and only voted Against a mere 2% of the time
Also when the balloon does go up, who do people generally call for? The Americans. Could that possibly because they're stronger? and if so, could that be because they're a collection of fifty sovereign entities united under one federal umbrella? ...and had they not joined together, would there even still be an America, or would it have been a continual inter-state conflict? and if THAT had happened, what would WWII have looked like?
Also when the balloon does go up, who do people generally call for? The Americans. Could that possibly because they're stronger? and if so, could that be because they're a collection of fifty sovereign entities united under one federal umbrella? ...and had they not joined together, would there even still be an America, or would it have been a continual inter-state conflict? and if THAT had happened, what would WWII have looked like?
FB
The alleged plan to permanently and irrevocably transfer control of the separate national forces of EU nations into a single force under the sole control of the EU, such that it would then be impossible for member countries to use their forces unilaterally in their own interests is something entirely different.
Happy to revisit 10 years from now, when there is still no EU Army, as you describe it.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...-boost-defence
Tabs please !
And shortly afterwards.....
French resume shipping exocet missiles to Argentina - UPI Archives
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Remind me, the nationality of the technicians working on the Exocet missiles in Argentina was.............?
And shortly afterwards.....
French resume shipping exocet missiles to Argentina - UPI Archives
And shortly afterwards.....
French resume shipping exocet missiles to Argentina - UPI Archives
If you're salty at the French for selling Argentina Exocets, wait until you find out who it was who sold them their flagship during the Falklands war, ARA Sanitisma Trinidad, as well as their only aircraft carrier.
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