USAF Pilot Retention Rates & Bonuses
Salute!
The tooth-to-tail ratio is a player, but I don't know how we can easily remedy that.
I always felt and still do that we have too many generals. Full colonels? About right for their jobs as wing or group commanders and such. In any case, that ain't the problem.
Besides the constant, never-ending war in the sandbox, there's the stuff that we always had to do besides fly and learn more about flying and practicing/training. In other words, we could have had a few generations of technicians like warrant officers and they would fly and fight. OTOH, we also needed senior officers and leaders that had touched the elephant and had the respect needed to wage war.
Seems to me that there's a happy medium with basic pilots and navigators and EWO's and so forth that are not ever gonna be generals. Then we should have a share of slots filled by the "professional" officers that will eventually command thousands or manage programs worth billions.
I repeat my mantra that the biggest thing with retention today is not $$$$. I saw it in the early 70's in the fighter community with many friends bailing out because the Vietnam scenario was not going away, and the airlines were hiring due to all the WW2 and Korean pilots retiring.
The 16 years we Yanks have spent in the sandbox has no end in sight. We haven't lost as many folks as we did from 1961 to 1973, but the smaller force is deploying a lot more. In 'nam we would go bout every 2 or 3 years, as we had a daisy chain system that used "return dates" and such.
Gums opines...
The tooth-to-tail ratio is a player, but I don't know how we can easily remedy that.
I always felt and still do that we have too many generals. Full colonels? About right for their jobs as wing or group commanders and such. In any case, that ain't the problem.
Besides the constant, never-ending war in the sandbox, there's the stuff that we always had to do besides fly and learn more about flying and practicing/training. In other words, we could have had a few generations of technicians like warrant officers and they would fly and fight. OTOH, we also needed senior officers and leaders that had touched the elephant and had the respect needed to wage war.
Seems to me that there's a happy medium with basic pilots and navigators and EWO's and so forth that are not ever gonna be generals. Then we should have a share of slots filled by the "professional" officers that will eventually command thousands or manage programs worth billions.
I repeat my mantra that the biggest thing with retention today is not $$$$. I saw it in the early 70's in the fighter community with many friends bailing out because the Vietnam scenario was not going away, and the airlines were hiring due to all the WW2 and Korean pilots retiring.
The 16 years we Yanks have spent in the sandbox has no end in sight. We haven't lost as many folks as we did from 1961 to 1973, but the smaller force is deploying a lot more. In 'nam we would go bout every 2 or 3 years, as we had a daisy chain system that used "return dates" and such.
Gums opines...
I repeat my mantra that the biggest thing with retention today is not $$$$. I saw it in the early 70's in the fighter community with many friends bailing out because the Vietnam scenario was not going away, and the airlines were hiring due to all the WW2 and Korean pilots retiring.
The 16 years we Yanks have spent in the sandbox has no end in sight. We haven't lost as many folks as we did from 1961 to 1973, but the smaller force is deploying a lot more. In 'nam we would go bout every 2 or 3 years, as we had a daisy chain system that used "return dates" and such.
The 16 years we Yanks have spent in the sandbox has no end in sight. We haven't lost as many folks as we did from 1961 to 1973, but the smaller force is deploying a lot more. In 'nam we would go bout every 2 or 3 years, as we had a daisy chain system that used "return dates" and such.
The seniors and the bean counters have for years played the poker game of “nah, they’re bluffing, they won’t leave”. Well guess what, they are and thanks to cuts and savings in other areas there are no means to train the replacements and no money to pay for it!
Air National Guard statement on the pilot supply issue:
“The only good news for me is you can be an airline pilot and a National Guard pilot” at the same time, he said, referencing how the Air Force is losing active-duty pilots to commercial airlines.
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...l-time-airmen/
“The only good news for me is you can be an airline pilot and a National Guard pilot” at the same time, he said, referencing how the Air Force is losing active-duty pilots to commercial airlines.
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...l-time-airmen/
The Guard is not what it used to be....ever since they politicked for front line equipment, and more significantly, the image of front line responsibility under the guise of 'total force'. 'Hand me down' stuff had one advantage....nobody really cared what you did with it, they expected to lose a few....and you could have two or more fighter squadrons at different locations in one state instead of in the boneyard (4 at one time in Ohio with surprisingly few airline types). All these folks, both ops & mx, were ultimately upgradable if absolutely necessary.
Be careful what you wish for.
When I told my new wife I was going out to the base do to an AFTP, she said, "What does that stand for, All Farmers Turn into Pilots?" Used to....
Now, for various reasons, they're basically RegAF clones with a lot more drone and intel units.
Be careful what you wish for.
When I told my new wife I was going out to the base do to an AFTP, she said, "What does that stand for, All Farmers Turn into Pilots?" Used to....
Now, for various reasons, they're basically RegAF clones with a lot more drone and intel units.
The latest thought from the USAF brass: Letting pilots just fly, but not just fly too much. They still just don't get it:
"Gen. Carlton Everhart has been gathering feedback from airmen on ways the Air Force can retain much-needed talent in the face of a national pilot shortage. One common theme that stood out, Everhart said, was how pilots wanted to keep flying without being bogged down by additional duties.
This prompted Everhart to brainstorm an aviation-only career path, where pilots would still have to perform certain non-flying duties but could cut down on some that might be unnecessary."
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...-career-track/
Might want to get serious about a plausible solution cuz:
"Over the next four years, about 1,600 mobility pilots will be eligible to separate from the active-duty force, according to Air Mobility Command."
"Gen. Carlton Everhart has been gathering feedback from airmen on ways the Air Force can retain much-needed talent in the face of a national pilot shortage. One common theme that stood out, Everhart said, was how pilots wanted to keep flying without being bogged down by additional duties.
This prompted Everhart to brainstorm an aviation-only career path, where pilots would still have to perform certain non-flying duties but could cut down on some that might be unnecessary."
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...-career-track/
Might want to get serious about a plausible solution cuz:
"Over the next four years, about 1,600 mobility pilots will be eligible to separate from the active-duty force, according to Air Mobility Command."
A program to motivate some young people to join the USAF as pilots:
AFJROTC Launches Flight Academy Program To Address Aircrew Shortage | Aero-News Network
AFJROTC Launches Flight Academy Program To Address Aircrew Shortage | Aero-News Network
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Compare and contrast with the hollow shell of the UK programme ... https://www.rafa.org.uk/wp-content/u...Conditions.pdf
ONE single cadet per annum to PPL standard, and 5 to [presumably] first solo!
When I did my Flying Scholarship in 1963 there were dozens of Air Cadets up and down the country getting their PPL. I think there were 6-8 of us at Oxford.
(Edit. And what's even worse is that it now funded and run by an RAF Charity, and not the RAF or the official Cast organisation.)
ONE single cadet per annum to PPL standard, and 5 to [presumably] first solo!
When I did my Flying Scholarship in 1963 there were dozens of Air Cadets up and down the country getting their PPL. I think there were 6-8 of us at Oxford.
(Edit. And what's even worse is that it now funded and run by an RAF Charity, and not the RAF or the official Cast organisation.)
Last edited by MPN11; 22nd Jan 2018 at 10:58.
This is kind of interesting.
No details and not sure what "experimenting" means:
“Gen. Wilson said the Air Force is experimenting with partnering with universities to bring in students who have already gone through their aviation programs. Those students would then go through an abbreviated Air Force pilot training program in the T-1, potentially cutting the timeline in half, he said.”
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...vere-shortage/
No details and not sure what "experimenting" means:
“Gen. Wilson said the Air Force is experimenting with partnering with universities to bring in students who have already gone through their aviation programs. Those students would then go through an abbreviated Air Force pilot training program in the T-1, potentially cutting the timeline in half, he said.”
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...vere-shortage/
They're still hangin' in there:
"We've dug into the details and analyzed the issue. It really comes down to two areas that we are investing in and focused on," Goldfein said before a House Appropriations Defense subcommittee hearing alongside Wilson. "One is how many pilots we produce and then, two, how many pilots we retain, because you have to get both of those right."
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...th-pilots.html
"We've dug into the details and analyzed the issue. It really comes down to two areas that we are investing in and focused on," Goldfein said before a House Appropriations Defense subcommittee hearing alongside Wilson. "One is how many pilots we produce and then, two, how many pilots we retain, because you have to get both of those right."
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...th-pilots.html
There is a great article on this here:
https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/ai...t-the-culture/
I think it hits the nail squarely on the head. For most NATO Air Forces facing similar issues it’s not all about money, it’s
1. Feeling valued (not just money)
2. Feeling trusted
3. Cutting down on the trivial ‘red tape’
4. Understanding where your job options are within a full career - for example a RAF pilot can now join at 18 and work until 60 - you can’t just fly Typhoons on ops for 42 years!
5. When you say “people are your most valued asset” actually mean it!
https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/ai...t-the-culture/
I think it hits the nail squarely on the head. For most NATO Air Forces facing similar issues it’s not all about money, it’s
1. Feeling valued (not just money)
2. Feeling trusted
3. Cutting down on the trivial ‘red tape’
4. Understanding where your job options are within a full career - for example a RAF pilot can now join at 18 and work until 60 - you can’t just fly Typhoons on ops for 42 years!
5. When you say “people are your most valued asset” actually mean it!
There is a great article on this here:
https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/ai...t-the-culture/
I think it hits the nail squarely on the head. For most NATO Air Forces facing similar issues it’s not all about money, it’s
1. Feeling valued (not just money)
2. Feeling trusted
3. Cutting down on the trivial ‘red tape’
4. Understanding where your job options are within a full career - for example a RAF pilot can now join at 18 and work until 60 - you can’t just fly Typhoons on ops for 42 years!
5. When you say “people are your most valued asset” actually mean it!
https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/ai...t-the-culture/
I think it hits the nail squarely on the head. For most NATO Air Forces facing similar issues it’s not all about money, it’s
1. Feeling valued (not just money)
2. Feeling trusted
3. Cutting down on the trivial ‘red tape’
4. Understanding where your job options are within a full career - for example a RAF pilot can now join at 18 and work until 60 - you can’t just fly Typhoons on ops for 42 years!
5. When you say “people are your most valued asset” actually mean it!
US Navy's latest pilot retention effort. Bless their li'l hearts:
“The U.S. Navy has expanded three key aviation bonus programs in an effort to keep experienced active-duty and Reserve pilots in the cockpit longer amid a Pentagon-wide aviator shortfall.”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...s-service.html
“The U.S. Navy has expanded three key aviation bonus programs in an effort to keep experienced active-duty and Reserve pilots in the cockpit longer amid a Pentagon-wide aviator shortfall.”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...s-service.html
I think the old adage about presenting statistics to support any case does hold water.....
When the RAF looked at NCO pilots recently during a planning exercise they worked out more expensive than officers over a predicted 20 year period (2016 figures used):
OR-6 Sgt starts on ~£35k and after 20 years as an OR-9 MACR earns about £48k So far so good.....
OF-1 Fg Off starts on ~£31k and rises to top of Flt Lt on £47k
How many Fg Off's do you have these days versus direct entry Flt Lt's?
This comparison is a little skewed when placed above the statement above... How many 20y Flt Lt's do you have that aren't on PAS?
After 2.5yrs the officer promotes to Flt Lt on ~£39k and the Sgt is either on £36k but promoted to FS about 3-5 years later starting on ~£38k. However, the 2.5yrs that the Sgt gets paid ~£4k more, and the MACR gets £1k+ per year towards the end of the 20 year period means that the NCOs are likely to be ahead by ~£20k over the period.
As you've used NCA pay scales as a comparator, the times above don't match as NCA have minimum 5y in rank before being eligible for promotion - so much of these figures are erroneous.
The RRP(F) is exactly the same for officer pilots as it is for the Army. They also get a retention payment of £70k but at a different point. So no savings to be had there.
Finally, an officer’s quarter is cheaper to the military as the officer pays more for a quarter than a SNCO will pay for theirs per month. Further, the SNCOs get free uniforms, so more money costs there. Plus also, most SNCO aircrew have the education quals for officer entry anyway.
Officers pay more for their MQ as they are far larger, and on many stations, more expensive in upkeep.
The free uniforms, in reality, come down to a set of blues - which cost pennies (or should do based on the quality). SNCO's have to purchase their own No 5's, which are probably more expensive than a set of blues.
So overall, SNCO/WO pilots worked out more expensive than officer pilots!
Not sure if the same applies to the US military, but it’s worth doing the maths (math!) first.
OR-6 Sgt starts on ~£35k and after 20 years as an OR-9 MACR earns about £48k So far so good.....
OF-1 Fg Off starts on ~£31k and rises to top of Flt Lt on £47k
How many Fg Off's do you have these days versus direct entry Flt Lt's?
This comparison is a little skewed when placed above the statement above... How many 20y Flt Lt's do you have that aren't on PAS?
After 2.5yrs the officer promotes to Flt Lt on ~£39k and the Sgt is either on £36k but promoted to FS about 3-5 years later starting on ~£38k. However, the 2.5yrs that the Sgt gets paid ~£4k more, and the MACR gets £1k+ per year towards the end of the 20 year period means that the NCOs are likely to be ahead by ~£20k over the period.
As you've used NCA pay scales as a comparator, the times above don't match as NCA have minimum 5y in rank before being eligible for promotion - so much of these figures are erroneous.
The RRP(F) is exactly the same for officer pilots as it is for the Army. They also get a retention payment of £70k but at a different point. So no savings to be had there.
Finally, an officer’s quarter is cheaper to the military as the officer pays more for a quarter than a SNCO will pay for theirs per month. Further, the SNCOs get free uniforms, so more money costs there. Plus also, most SNCO aircrew have the education quals for officer entry anyway.
Officers pay more for their MQ as they are far larger, and on many stations, more expensive in upkeep.
The free uniforms, in reality, come down to a set of blues - which cost pennies (or should do based on the quality). SNCO's have to purchase their own No 5's, which are probably more expensive than a set of blues.
So overall, SNCO/WO pilots worked out more expensive than officer pilots!
Not sure if the same applies to the US military, but it’s worth doing the maths (math!) first.
No, LJ had it correct. Officers do pay more for identical accommodation, so as a flying officer living next door to a warrant officer I paid considerably more for my MQ despite lower basic pay.
Officer uniform really does have to be paid for (1s,2s, 5s et al) where as it really is free for SNCOs. Mess dress is optional for SNCOs so paying for it or not is up to the individual.
But the major point is that we are short of officers to feed the higher ranks - reducing the supply further would be madness.
Officer uniform really does have to be paid for (1s,2s, 5s et al) where as it really is free for SNCOs. Mess dress is optional for SNCOs so paying for it or not is up to the individual.
But the major point is that we are short of officers to feed the higher ranks - reducing the supply further would be madness.
I thought that while the USAF had been given the ability to recall 1,000 retirees, they were only going to get a handful. Now it's not clear what they're doing. It's not going to fix their problem but they get a "A" for effort:
"President Trump’s decision to allow up to 1,000 retired pilots to come back has been helpful, Goldfein said, though that program is still early in the process.
He said he’s pushing to ensure the service is effectively reaching out to and following up with retirees who might be interested in returning to uniform."
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...b-coming-home/
"President Trump’s decision to allow up to 1,000 retired pilots to come back has been helpful, Goldfein said, though that program is still early in the process.
He said he’s pushing to ensure the service is effectively reaching out to and following up with retirees who might be interested in returning to uniform."
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...b-coming-home/
Kinda interesting but they can still screw it up:
“It has been decades since enlisted airmen had the chance to sit in the cockpit. But as the Air Force faces the greatest pilot shortages since its inception, service leaders are contemplating a return to a model that includes enlisted pilots. A Rand Corp. study, set to be completed this month, is exploring the feasibility of bringing back a warrant officer corps for that purpose.”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-75-years.html
“It has been decades since enlisted airmen had the chance to sit in the cockpit. But as the Air Force faces the greatest pilot shortages since its inception, service leaders are contemplating a return to a model that includes enlisted pilots. A Rand Corp. study, set to be completed this month, is exploring the feasibility of bringing back a warrant officer corps for that purpose.”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-75-years.html
I wonder how their hiring efforts are going:
“ATAC’s hiring model, which goes back to its founding in 1994, is to catch pilots as they come out of the military. It does not recruit active-duty fighter pilots, which would only exacerbate the shortage of aviators.”
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/outs...cises-1.518888
“ATAC’s hiring model, which goes back to its founding in 1994, is to catch pilots as they come out of the military. It does not recruit active-duty fighter pilots, which would only exacerbate the shortage of aviators.”
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/outs...cises-1.518888
And...they're still pondering...and pondering:
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...-pilot-crisis/
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...-pilot-crisis/