New big German-French Fighter Bomber under development
Luftwaffe WSO training to continue at Pensacola??
The Jane's video, with the impressive Gareth Jennings fronting, does say that France has been looking at 4 design concepts.
I find it interesting that French attention seems to have switched from the finless, tailless Delta shown in the original Dassault 'Wings for Europe' video
Dasault 'Wings for Europe' video concept
and in model form at Euronaval
New Generation Fighter concept at Euronavale
to a twin-finned design more reminiscent of the original Airbus study.
French twin-finned concept
Original concept unveiled by Airbus
original Airbus concept
I find it interesting that French attention seems to have switched from the finless, tailless Delta shown in the original Dassault 'Wings for Europe' video
Dasault 'Wings for Europe' video concept
and in model form at Euronaval
New Generation Fighter concept at Euronavale
to a twin-finned design more reminiscent of the original Airbus study.
French twin-finned concept
Original concept unveiled by Airbus
original Airbus concept
Cheers
AFAIK, all of the design concepts (French and German) are for a two-seat optionally-pilot aircraft. They have until an ISD of about 2045 to get a pilot training pipeline up and running, so just 'details' at this point.
Industry Begins Work On Franco-German Fighter Project
On Aviation Week.
Click link for full article.
France and Germany may have signed off on the latest milestones to develop a future combat aircraft, but tensions are simmering due to Berlin’s continued reluctance over defense exports.
The two countries agreed to a pact to further defense cooperation on Jan. 22, including finding a “common approach” to exports of defense equipment produced in partnership. But Germany now appears to be holding up sales of the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile to Saudi Arabia, citing concerns about Riyadh’s ongoing conflict in Yemen, French newspaper La Tribune reported on Feb. 5.
MTU and Safran will work together on the engine for the NGF
Demonstrator programs for FCAS will be announced at the Paris Air Show
And while exports of a Future Combat Air System (FCAS) are at least two decades away, there are concerns that a failure to find consensus on defense exports, even after such high-level agreements, could yet throw a spanner into the work of the Franco-German industry at a fragile early stage.
“It is a path . . . . We will find a solution,” French Air Force chief Gen. Philippe Lavigne said in Washington on Feb. 7 when asked about Germany’s reticence toward defense exports, particularly to some Middle Eastern countries. “There is a real determination for this program, for our security but also for our industry. We have to develop this.”
On Feb. 6, Berlin and Paris began doing just that, issuing the first industry contracts for a two-year concept study for the FCAS, which is being developed to replace France’s Dassault Rafales and Germany’s Eurofighters.
The €65 million ($74 million) project will outline the concepts and provide some options for different architectures, says Lavigne. It will also prepare and initiate demonstrator programs that could be formally launched at this year’s Paris Air Show and fly about 2025. The work follows national studies carried out during 2018 that outlined the characteristics and missions the FCAS would perform.
The two countries agreed to a pact to further defense cooperation on Jan. 22, including finding a “common approach” to exports of defense equipment produced in partnership. But Germany now appears to be holding up sales of the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile to Saudi Arabia, citing concerns about Riyadh’s ongoing conflict in Yemen, French newspaper La Tribune reported on Feb. 5.
MTU and Safran will work together on the engine for the NGF
Demonstrator programs for FCAS will be announced at the Paris Air Show
And while exports of a Future Combat Air System (FCAS) are at least two decades away, there are concerns that a failure to find consensus on defense exports, even after such high-level agreements, could yet throw a spanner into the work of the Franco-German industry at a fragile early stage.
“It is a path . . . . We will find a solution,” French Air Force chief Gen. Philippe Lavigne said in Washington on Feb. 7 when asked about Germany’s reticence toward defense exports, particularly to some Middle Eastern countries. “There is a real determination for this program, for our security but also for our industry. We have to develop this.”
On Feb. 6, Berlin and Paris began doing just that, issuing the first industry contracts for a two-year concept study for the FCAS, which is being developed to replace France’s Dassault Rafales and Germany’s Eurofighters.
The €65 million ($74 million) project will outline the concepts and provide some options for different architectures, says Lavigne. It will also prepare and initiate demonstrator programs that could be formally launched at this year’s Paris Air Show and fly about 2025. The work follows national studies carried out during 2018 that outlined the characteristics and missions the FCAS would perform.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...-fighter-deal/
Taking sides: Italian defense industry rep attacks Franco-German fighter deal
ROME — Plans by France and Germany to team up on a next-generation fighter are an affront to Italy and will weaken the European Union, according to the head of an Italian defense industry association.
In a strong attack on the Future Air Combat System, or FCAS, deal, Guido Crosetto told Defense News that Italy would seek closer ties with the U.K. as a consequence, despite the U.K.’s pending exit from the EU.
“The fighter deal between Germany and France leaves all others on the margins. And since the only other country with equal industrial capabilities is Italy, the deal is clearly against Italy,” he said. “Have France and Germany tried to get the Italy involved? It doesn’t look that way,” he added. “Additionally, if two European stakeholders strike deals together, how should the others react? This risks weakening the EU, while giving more justification to those trying to weaken the EU.”
Crosetto is the head of the Italian defense industry association AIAD.......
The FCAS program covers both manned and unmanned aircraft, which are due in service from 2040 to replace French Rafale fighters and Eurofighters currently flown by Germany. Showing that Paris and Berlin do want additional partners, Spain signed up Feb. 14, stating it would become an equal partner on the program.
But in the belief that Germany and France will call the shots, Crosetto said Italy would do well to sign up with the U.K. to work on the British future fighter known as Tempest. “A jilted partner has the right to look around for other partners, and the U.K. has asked us to join Tempest,” he said.
Italy’s junior defense minister, Angelo Tofalo, said in December that the country “needed to enter the program immediately.”
Crosetto said he was not alarmed by the potential difficulty of doing business with the U.K. if and when it leaves the European customs union, which is due to happen this year. The split will be a headache for Italy’s defense champion Leonardo, which owns facilities in the U.K. and would spearhead Italy’s work on Tempest. “Brexit would mean more red tape for Leonardo but would not be a difficulty — the Italy-U.K. relationship would remain very positive,” he said......
Taking sides: Italian defense industry rep attacks Franco-German fighter deal
ROME — Plans by France and Germany to team up on a next-generation fighter are an affront to Italy and will weaken the European Union, according to the head of an Italian defense industry association.
In a strong attack on the Future Air Combat System, or FCAS, deal, Guido Crosetto told Defense News that Italy would seek closer ties with the U.K. as a consequence, despite the U.K.’s pending exit from the EU.
“The fighter deal between Germany and France leaves all others on the margins. And since the only other country with equal industrial capabilities is Italy, the deal is clearly against Italy,” he said. “Have France and Germany tried to get the Italy involved? It doesn’t look that way,” he added. “Additionally, if two European stakeholders strike deals together, how should the others react? This risks weakening the EU, while giving more justification to those trying to weaken the EU.”
Crosetto is the head of the Italian defense industry association AIAD.......
The FCAS program covers both manned and unmanned aircraft, which are due in service from 2040 to replace French Rafale fighters and Eurofighters currently flown by Germany. Showing that Paris and Berlin do want additional partners, Spain signed up Feb. 14, stating it would become an equal partner on the program.
But in the belief that Germany and France will call the shots, Crosetto said Italy would do well to sign up with the U.K. to work on the British future fighter known as Tempest. “A jilted partner has the right to look around for other partners, and the U.K. has asked us to join Tempest,” he said.
Italy’s junior defense minister, Angelo Tofalo, said in December that the country “needed to enter the program immediately.”
Crosetto said he was not alarmed by the potential difficulty of doing business with the U.K. if and when it leaves the European customs union, which is due to happen this year. The split will be a headache for Italy’s defense champion Leonardo, which owns facilities in the U.K. and would spearhead Italy’s work on Tempest. “Brexit would mean more red tape for Leonardo but would not be a difficulty — the Italy-U.K. relationship would remain very positive,” he said......
Spain joins Franco-German FCAS fighter programme
Well, the Spanish clearly have a different opinion to the Italians. On Flight Global:-
Spain has joined the existing Franco-German effort to develop a future combat air system (FCAS), which is scheduled to enter service by 2040.
During a NATO meeting in Brussels on 14 February, Spain's minister of defence, Margarita Robles, signed a letter of intent with her respective French and German counterparts, Florence Parly and Ursula von der Leyen, covering the country's integration into the programme.
Madrid says that the country is joining the initiative on "equal terms with France and Germany" and that the project will give Spain "leadership visibility" within European security and defence policies.
Noting that Spain is already a partner in the Eurofighter programme – together with Germany, Italy and the UK – the defence ministry says the commitment will provide "quality opportunities to the Spanish defence industry" and enable the country to maintain a "solid base" of aerospace activities.
The FCAS programme will comprise development of a manned fighter jet and unmanned aircraft, which can be operated together.
Aircraft developed under the programme will replace the Eurofighters operated by Germany and Spain, as well as France's Dassault Rafale fighters.
Airbus Defence & Space – which has extensive activities in Spain – and Dassault have been selected as prime contractors for FCAS programme, while Safran Aircraft Engines and MTU Aero Engines have joined forces to build the aircraft's powerplants.
Spanish manufacturer ITP is a shareholder in the Eurojet consortium that builds the EJ200 engine for the Eurofighter – as is the company's parent, Rolls-Royce.
However, R-R has been selected as propulsion partner for the UK's Tempest next-generation fighter programme.
During a NATO meeting in Brussels on 14 February, Spain's minister of defence, Margarita Robles, signed a letter of intent with her respective French and German counterparts, Florence Parly and Ursula von der Leyen, covering the country's integration into the programme.
Madrid says that the country is joining the initiative on "equal terms with France and Germany" and that the project will give Spain "leadership visibility" within European security and defence policies.
Noting that Spain is already a partner in the Eurofighter programme – together with Germany, Italy and the UK – the defence ministry says the commitment will provide "quality opportunities to the Spanish defence industry" and enable the country to maintain a "solid base" of aerospace activities.
The FCAS programme will comprise development of a manned fighter jet and unmanned aircraft, which can be operated together.
Aircraft developed under the programme will replace the Eurofighters operated by Germany and Spain, as well as France's Dassault Rafale fighters.
Airbus Defence & Space – which has extensive activities in Spain – and Dassault have been selected as prime contractors for FCAS programme, while Safran Aircraft Engines and MTU Aero Engines have joined forces to build the aircraft's powerplants.
Spanish manufacturer ITP is a shareholder in the Eurojet consortium that builds the EJ200 engine for the Eurofighter – as is the company's parent, Rolls-Royce.
However, R-R has been selected as propulsion partner for the UK's Tempest next-generation fighter programme.
The Spanish don't see themselves as a tier one military airframer any more (if ever)
The Italians remember when they were..
the big question is do the Brits have the balls and the money to stay in the game or would they prefer to be US sub-contractors...
The Italians remember when they were..
the big question is do the Brits have the balls and the money to stay in the game or would they prefer to be US sub-contractors...
The latest graphic from BAES has a bigger canopy and rumours abound about a possible return to 2-seat ops. It also says “pilots” - ie. plural?
Maybe the RAF are starting to listen to other coalition partners? Here is a good sound bite from Air Cdre ‘Zed’ Robertson talking about Syrian ops (Op OKRA):
The Super Hornet, to my mind, was probably the best tactical platform in-theatre at the tactical strike role. Now I would say that, wouldn’t I, as Commander Air Combat Group? The two-seat concept was absolutely validated—the ability to get the platform over there, deal with the initial complexities and employ operationally was excellent. It was very different by December, when we were working with the larger coalition of 13 nations. When we arrived, the Brits had just started dropping weapons, so we were about the third nation to drop weapons. The French had done a couple as well, but as a coalition, we were very much at the forefront of the campaign.
The processes were very immature. Having a pilot and WSO able to work through the rules of engagement and targeting directive matrix, be sure of combat ID and give that assurance was second-to-none. I would argue that, unlike our Classic Hornets, the Super Hornet’s ability to generate CAT 1 GPS-guided weapon coordinates off the aircrew’s helmet proved very flexible. Our ability to quickly react and deliver weapons accurately was borne out. We measured that and it compares very favourably with all the other strike capabilities there.
The processes were very immature. Having a pilot and WSO able to work through the rules of engagement and targeting directive matrix, be sure of combat ID and give that assurance was second-to-none. I would argue that, unlike our Classic Hornets, the Super Hornet’s ability to generate CAT 1 GPS-guided weapon coordinates off the aircrew’s helmet proved very flexible. Our ability to quickly react and deliver weapons accurately was borne out. We measured that and it compares very favourably with all the other strike capabilities there.
A Germany that gets half its gas from Russia is unlikely to enter into a conflict with its supplier.
More to the point how is Germany, in particular, going to be able to afford it?
I mean they can't afford what they have now!!
I mean they can't afford what they have now!!
I don't think anyone can keep paying for higher and higher tech fighters TBH - the technology is becoming too expensive.....................
It may turn out like the RAF between WW1 and WW2 - a whole string of one or two "technology demonstrators" that just about keep the design teams in work but never lead to a fleet buy....................
It may turn out like the RAF between WW1 and WW2 - a whole string of one or two "technology demonstrators" that just about keep the design teams in work but never lead to a fleet buy....................
As with Typhoon their primary objective was to gain technology and pretend to buy hundreds to ensure their work split and then reduce their number to a much lower number.
Also as with Typhoon they drive up the cost making exports unaffordable.
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Why Franco-German Fighter Is A Very Bad Idea
On Aviation Week. From the article:-
Last month, France and Germany signed a €65 million ($74 million) contract covering the first two years of a planned binational fighter under the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) program. This represents a departure from the historical pattern—for the past half century, Germany has worked with Britain and other countries on combat aircraft, while France has gone its own way. But this time, the UK’s EU Brexit has inspired the two countries to try a different, joint path.
Superficially, this makes sense. Germany and France are the core Airbus countries, and the two countries’ militaries constitute the largest fighter markets in Europe, outside of the UK. France has the most capable military industry on the continent. Yet there are also several flaws with this joint project, flaws serious enough to kill the aircraft before it gets off the ground.
Superficially, this makes sense. Germany and France are the core Airbus countries, and the two countries’ militaries constitute the largest fighter markets in Europe, outside of the UK. France has the most capable military industry on the continent. Yet there are also several flaws with this joint project, flaws serious enough to kill the aircraft before it gets off the ground.
Le Bourget this week
Beginning to wonder ...if this could be it as I made my merry way through the show (my photos below) then after elevenses.
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I thought it had been swept under the carpet.