F-4 Phantom in UK service
Join Date: Mar 2008
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BEagle,
As one who flew with both J79 and RR engined F4s, the J79 was not necessarily as great as some may believe. The USAF operated the engine with a relatively low Max JPT to extend engine life. Certainly in the mid 80s only the USMC F4s operated to the Max JPT to gain the maximum thrust. They limited at nearly 100 deg C hotter than USAF aircraft, the problem was they needed an engine change every 100-200 hrs!
How many J79 powered F4s made 800kts at low level?
Please don't be so condescending, with over 30 years as a fast jet receiver, and a Mission Commander, I do have I slight understanding of the employment of AAR. Please don't make out that providing AAR is more difficult than it is. With the correct training, planning and using the correct procedures, a flexibly mined crew should be able to provide a service on most missions!
"Why did you guys leave out the best part of the F-4 - the J-79!"
How many J79 powered F4s made 800kts at low level?
Regarding AAR, you clearly have little idea of the work involved in the provision of a flexible, efficient service to meet the varying needs of different receiver types.
Last edited by Dominator2; 3rd Nov 2017 at 11:06.
Of course in F-4 days, we used 'K' as the usual request to the tanker, so that 4K meant 4 kilopounds!!
An early comment to a VC10K, which announced to a receiver that they had "3 tons spare", was "We're after fuel, not nutty slack!"
An early comment to a VC10K, which announced to a receiver that they had "3 tons spare", was "We're after fuel, not nutty slack!"
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
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@ Flash ... Surely if it's 'Contactless' no fuel will have been transferred, and therefore no charge? 
CG
Ever wondered where the Spey engines and engine spares went to from the RAF F-4M FGR.2 Phantom fleet?
90 Speys Mk202s were sold to China for use in their Air Force and Navy Xian JH-7/JH-7A Flounder fighter bomber fleet.
From the e-disposals document that used to be online.
'Spey Mk202 Engines. The contract to supply 90 Spey Mk 202 engines to an overseas customer, which started in 2000, was successfully completed on schedule in June 2001. The engines, which were sold through Rolls Royce plc and also included a large package of ex-RAF spares supplied by Military Aircraft Spares Limited, were originally fitted to the RAF’s Phantom aircraft until they were retired from service.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_JH-7
China also licence produced the Spey Mk202 as the WS-9 Qinling.
90 Speys Mk202s were sold to China for use in their Air Force and Navy Xian JH-7/JH-7A Flounder fighter bomber fleet.
From the e-disposals document that used to be online.
'Spey Mk202 Engines. The contract to supply 90 Spey Mk 202 engines to an overseas customer, which started in 2000, was successfully completed on schedule in June 2001. The engines, which were sold through Rolls Royce plc and also included a large package of ex-RAF spares supplied by Military Aircraft Spares Limited, were originally fitted to the RAF’s Phantom aircraft until they were retired from service.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_JH-7
China also licence produced the Spey Mk202 as the WS-9 Qinling.
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Orac - Would you like your gallons in Imperial, US or Metric ?
Is that Short, Long or Tonnes ?
I suppose the only really good thing about AAR is the Receiver doesn't have to sign for it in a Legal Document. Or will Tankers accept contactless payment these days ? ...
.......... LFH
..................
Is that Short, Long or Tonnes ?
I suppose the only really good thing about AAR is the Receiver doesn't have to sign for it in a Legal Document. Or will Tankers accept contactless payment these days ? ...
.......... LFH..................
YT
There has always been a billing for fuel (at least in my short time in AAR). Quite why we move fuel costs around the RAF is a bit of a mystery to me. I am pretty sure that we have an offsetting arrangement with the Americans i.e. it gets all sorted out at the end of the year.
D2 It works both ways-if I had a pound for every rx that has prodded on the red or asked to join directly astern!
There has always been a billing for fuel (at least in my short time in AAR). Quite why we move fuel costs around the RAF is a bit of a mystery to me. I am pretty sure that we have an offsetting arrangement with the Americans i.e. it gets all sorted out at the end of the year.
D2 It works both ways-if I had a pound for every rx that has prodded on the red or asked to join directly astern!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
IIRC, during GWI the Saudis promised t9 footnthe bill for the fuel off-loaded. The RAF tankers in Bahrain happily filled to full and dispensed to the USN as they flew from their carriers down south outside the Gulf as well as the RAF units.
I believe that, when the Bahrainis presented their bill to Saudi after the war the diplomatic discussions and negotiations were....... intense.
I believe that, when the Bahrainis presented their bill to Saudi after the war the diplomatic discussions and negotiations were....... intense.
CG
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Certainly, in 1969 the OCU placed primary importance on AD training ahead of GA as they knew that the F4 would be in the fighter role as soon as Jaguar became operational.
As to why it was unable to drop bombs and fire rockets the answer was probably money. Starting with engineering and logistics: armourers would have to maintain GA weapons roles as well as AD. Maintaining GA weapons cabling and tuning that part of the weapons system would also have manpower and infrastructure costs. Provision of additional weapons would cost as the Jaguar and Harrier needed them too. Finally aircrew training would cost with either additional flight time or lower skill levels.
A similar argument was made with Typhoon for dedicated or swing roles.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 10th Nov 2017 at 19:31.
PontiousNavigator,
Have to disagree about the OCU emphasis in 1969. It was almost totally GA and Strike with only a small amount of AD intro and fundamentals work. The OCU was producing Strike crews for 3 squadrons in RAFG along with 1 Recce/GA sqn and 2 GA and 1 Recce/GA squadrons in 38 Group, the only RAF AD squadron of the time flew FG1's and the RN trained those crews.
In 74 onwards it would most certainly have been almost all AD, but not in the early years.
Have to disagree about the OCU emphasis in 1969. It was almost totally GA and Strike with only a small amount of AD intro and fundamentals work. The OCU was producing Strike crews for 3 squadrons in RAFG along with 1 Recce/GA sqn and 2 GA and 1 Recce/GA squadrons in 38 Group, the only RAF AD squadron of the time flew FG1's and the RN trained those crews.
In 74 onwards it would most certainly have been almost all AD, but not in the early years.
