Quitting before IOT
OP. Still thinking? I hope that wannabees do not in fact get through IOT without a certain commitment. How then is yours going to survive a tent on ***moor in the cold and dark?
And then you get shouted at! Give someone else the chance.
And then you get shouted at! Give someone else the chance.
"without all the crap"? Really?!
Professional responsibility (Sqn TrgO/Standards/CFS agent etc) far preferable to sitting at the downhill end of the sh*t pipe from Wg/Force/Gp HQs
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Gosh! Thanks, LJ 
Originally Posted by [email protected]
all things are relative - certainly compared to Sqn Ldr, which must be the worst rank in the RAF for quality of life
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Join the military for a reason
Everyone has a story and a preference for what to do and where to live but ultimately you sign away your life to do as you’re told for a life that elsewhere you can only dream of.
OP I think you need to really question why you wished to join in the first place. Doubts are normal I certainly had mine but:
It is a team sport. Military life in general and aviation is no different.
You’re to be an Officer. You’ve got to convince someone at somepoint to put themselves in harms way. Whatever the service you’re in.
You’re also to manage their careers, try and help improve their lives and if necessary tell them to take a bite of a very deep **** sandwich. This admin you refer to is your responsibility. If you aren’t interested in that, quit now.
No offence but you seem to be in the right service for you to make the best of it. I think Army training may have forced your hand by now. (Body armour going on for abuse for that one.)
It was easier 10 (ahem) years ago because there were big wars on. You trained and you went there. Nowadays we are deployed all over but there is no huge central warfighting effort. Aviation is feast and famine, when you’re going somewhere you’ll fly a lot more than 15hrs per month or less than 10hrs because you are no longer the priority.
It is a rewarding life, you have mundane anywhere but only here can you do some truly cool ****!
OP I think you need to really question why you wished to join in the first place. Doubts are normal I certainly had mine but:
It is a team sport. Military life in general and aviation is no different.
You’re to be an Officer. You’ve got to convince someone at somepoint to put themselves in harms way. Whatever the service you’re in.
You’re also to manage their careers, try and help improve their lives and if necessary tell them to take a bite of a very deep **** sandwich. This admin you refer to is your responsibility. If you aren’t interested in that, quit now.
No offence but you seem to be in the right service for you to make the best of it. I think Army training may have forced your hand by now. (Body armour going on for abuse for that one.)
It was easier 10 (ahem) years ago because there were big wars on. You trained and you went there. Nowadays we are deployed all over but there is no huge central warfighting effort. Aviation is feast and famine, when you’re going somewhere you’ll fly a lot more than 15hrs per month or less than 10hrs because you are no longer the priority.
It is a rewarding life, you have mundane anywhere but only here can you do some truly cool ****!
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OP. Sorry if this is a bit blunt - but you seem to have got all you want out of the RAF and clearly have no burning desire to join, or the backbone to take a decision on your own.
You could fail IOT.
You could fail basic flying training.
You could fail advanced flying training.
You could fail OCU.
You could get binned from your first operational sqn.
I wouldn't bet on just walking into a ground branch either as they started to get selective some years ago.
Go get yourself a civvy job, buy a house, mow your lawn. I don't think you would like detachment life. Or prove something.
You could fail IOT.
You could fail basic flying training.
You could fail advanced flying training.
You could fail OCU.
You could get binned from your first operational sqn.
I wouldn't bet on just walking into a ground branch either as they started to get selective some years ago.
Go get yourself a civvy job, buy a house, mow your lawn. I don't think you would like detachment life. Or prove something.
so you never made Spec Aircrew Sqn Ldr then Crab?
It was a no-brainer since the money was better on PA spine and it was all pensionable. Combine that with a transfer to AFP05 pension terms (more money again and better death in service benefits) and there was absolutely no reason not to.
Just got to stay breathing until 65 to get my second gratuity
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This thread has really kept me amused at lunchbreaks - I think he is a Walt/Journo, was tempted to respond in the spirit of many of you but in the end concluded, he was not worth the venom. I'm chilled now, 28 years man and boy and I enjoyed every minute of it even the Whitehall warrior bit.
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Whatever the motivation of the OP, at least he/someone has had an insight. If you dare buy the DM, you may find an article later
And in Whitehall I actually achieved a few things, albeit not at M 0.9/FL360/Fox1
And in Whitehall I actually achieved a few things, albeit not at M 0.9/FL360/Fox1
Originally Posted by [email protected]
all things are relative - certainly compared to Sqn Ldr, which must be the worst rank in the RAF for quality of life - saw so many disillusioned over the years.
Professional responsibility (Sqn TrgO/Standards/CFS agent etc) far preferable to sitting at the downhill end of the sh*t pipe from Wg/Force/Gp HQs
Professional responsibility (Sqn TrgO/Standards/CFS agent etc) far preferable to sitting at the downhill end of the sh*t pipe from Wg/Force/Gp HQs
Aevu,
I have been following this thread with a mixture of irritation and sympathy. My irritation stems from ypour apparent diffidence and lack of commitment over taking this step whilst I am sympathetic to anyone agonising over such an important decision. It is not surprising therefore that the replies that you have attracted have fallen into two distinct camps, the give it a go you have nothing to lose lobby versus the don't waste your and others time.
So let me address the commitment issue by way of a start. Forget the 'rigours' of and your aversion to IOT. I agree that it will probably be uncomfortable, aggravating and downright childish at times. Just regard it as a hoop that you have to jump through in order to achieve your goal. If you genuinely want to be an RAF officer and pilot you will easily rise above it. I am more concerned at your current lack of commitment. You will need to have determination and total self-belief to negotiate the various and increasingly challenging phases of flying training. I spent several years training prospective fast-jet pilots in their latter stages and those without commitment were soon apparent to we instructors and thus were unlikely to get much support. On the other hand those totally determined but struggling would be encouraged and helped throughout.
I do sympathise with your apprehension but if it doesn't feel right, don't do it. I do not subscribe to the give it a go lobby. Without your determination to be a pilot you may well not succeed and thus will be wasting precious years of your early life. It is however a wonderful life and how anyone can compare the satisfaction of flying a military fast jet with being a systems monitor in a civil people carrier is beyond me. If your concern is over job satisfaction have no fears. The pluses far outweigh the minuses and such 'minuses' as to where bases are located etc are trivial in comparison.
So, how much do you want it? I rather suspect from such things as your concern over IOT, pay, base location etc not that much but I may be judging you harshly. If you are keen to succeed, people will generally want to help you but indifference is a no-no. You should by now, hopefully, have had enough feedback from us here to make your decision.
I have been following this thread with a mixture of irritation and sympathy. My irritation stems from ypour apparent diffidence and lack of commitment over taking this step whilst I am sympathetic to anyone agonising over such an important decision. It is not surprising therefore that the replies that you have attracted have fallen into two distinct camps, the give it a go you have nothing to lose lobby versus the don't waste your and others time.
So let me address the commitment issue by way of a start. Forget the 'rigours' of and your aversion to IOT. I agree that it will probably be uncomfortable, aggravating and downright childish at times. Just regard it as a hoop that you have to jump through in order to achieve your goal. If you genuinely want to be an RAF officer and pilot you will easily rise above it. I am more concerned at your current lack of commitment. You will need to have determination and total self-belief to negotiate the various and increasingly challenging phases of flying training. I spent several years training prospective fast-jet pilots in their latter stages and those without commitment were soon apparent to we instructors and thus were unlikely to get much support. On the other hand those totally determined but struggling would be encouraged and helped throughout.
I do sympathise with your apprehension but if it doesn't feel right, don't do it. I do not subscribe to the give it a go lobby. Without your determination to be a pilot you may well not succeed and thus will be wasting precious years of your early life. It is however a wonderful life and how anyone can compare the satisfaction of flying a military fast jet with being a systems monitor in a civil people carrier is beyond me. If your concern is over job satisfaction have no fears. The pluses far outweigh the minuses and such 'minuses' as to where bases are located etc are trivial in comparison.
So, how much do you want it? I rather suspect from such things as your concern over IOT, pay, base location etc not that much but I may be judging you harshly. If you are keen to succeed, people will generally want to help you but indifference is a no-no. You should by now, hopefully, have had enough feedback from us here to make your decision.
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Nip,
I'm not sure that location is as trivial as those of old will assume it to be; I completely understand the principle behind why you say that (vs flying upside down and at M1.2+), but the reality I feel is a little different?
aevu is likely to be much like a lot of guys and gals arriving on the FL these days - early 30s, married, a lot with kids. Gone are the days where the majority of OCU grads are mid-20s, single and living in the Mess, therefore location could be considered to be more important.
Either way, when considering the age of most OCU grads currently (on FJ anyway), doesn't bode well for those wishing to climb the promotion ladder, where some are Wg Cdrs at the same age of some that others are in their first FL tour! Probably a different thread altogether! As a grad one's ability to attain the higher ranks is very difficult!
BB.
I'm not sure that location is as trivial as those of old will assume it to be; I completely understand the principle behind why you say that (vs flying upside down and at M1.2+), but the reality I feel is a little different?
aevu is likely to be much like a lot of guys and gals arriving on the FL these days - early 30s, married, a lot with kids. Gone are the days where the majority of OCU grads are mid-20s, single and living in the Mess, therefore location could be considered to be more important.
Either way, when considering the age of most OCU grads currently (on FJ anyway), doesn't bode well for those wishing to climb the promotion ladder, where some are Wg Cdrs at the same age of some that others are in their first FL tour! Probably a different thread altogether! As a grad one's ability to attain the higher ranks is very difficult!
BB.
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As a grad one's ability to attain the higher ranks is very difficult!
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Being a graduate did not stop Joseph Gilbert's rapid rise to ACM and appointment as Deputy C in C Strike Command followed by appointment as Deputy C in C Allied Forces Central Europe.
The GD promotional system,in my day at least, certainly seemed to be fixated upon a long term drive to select a future CAS.
Well, that counted me out!
Well, that counted me out!
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An infamous "Scottish <insert rank/appointment> officer progressed rapidly, despite being generally despised. Clearly hand-picked at an early stage by his sponsor, although not a great success, I believe. He fell at the last hurdles, mercifully
I worked for it for 2 years ... that was the final nail in my enthusiasm coffin.
I worked for it for 2 years ... that was the final nail in my enthusiasm coffin.
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I'm mainly talking about the current climate, not that of the 80's when the training system was probably a bit quicker to complete!
With a money-making company in charge of FJ AFT who only get paid when they produce students (notwithstanding the effect that can have on quality...) and not instructors - I do not see this problem alleviating any time soon!
Agree, IF you get sponsored by the right individual things can change very quickly - unfortunately, IMHO, this can lead to some (not all, I admit) people being picked up who show the right face to the right person at the right time. Can lead to friction with those of a similar generation who have just done their job well without seeking the attention of the senior officers. I'm sure not much has changed here however!
Anyway, apologies for the slight divergence off topic - valid things for a university graduate to be aware of before joining (not that this would have changed anything for me personally).
With a money-making company in charge of FJ AFT who only get paid when they produce students (notwithstanding the effect that can have on quality...) and not instructors - I do not see this problem alleviating any time soon!
Agree, IF you get sponsored by the right individual things can change very quickly - unfortunately, IMHO, this can lead to some (not all, I admit) people being picked up who show the right face to the right person at the right time. Can lead to friction with those of a similar generation who have just done their job well without seeking the attention of the senior officers. I'm sure not much has changed here however!
Anyway, apologies for the slight divergence off topic - valid things for a university graduate to be aware of before joining (not that this would have changed anything for me personally).
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Aevu,
I remember a broadly similar post was made a good few years ago.
You are in a decent position now to know what the next few years will look like, and to know whether they are worth it for you. These are the best years of your life & whichever path you choose you may regret it.
It would be good if you got your private messaging functionality up & running - you might get further insights & advice. You’re a Pprune probationer & (correct me if I’m wrong but) a few more posts should unlock the PM functionality.
Best wishes.
I remember a broadly similar post was made a good few years ago.
You are in a decent position now to know what the next few years will look like, and to know whether they are worth it for you. These are the best years of your life & whichever path you choose you may regret it.
It would be good if you got your private messaging functionality up & running - you might get further insights & advice. You’re a Pprune probationer & (correct me if I’m wrong but) a few more posts should unlock the PM functionality.
Best wishes.
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Be a man and quit.
There are hundreds of kids who would sell body parts for the chance you have been offered, and you post that crap !
Give it up and go find a safe space somewhere.
There are hundreds of kids who would sell body parts for the chance you have been offered, and you post that crap !
Give it up and go find a safe space somewhere.
