Quitting before IOT
Very good, brief comment, wiggy.
You don't know if you'll like it until you try it (as they say
)
I even liked my short tour in ATC.
Although, as a 23yo ex MN officer, I found IOT a bit of a PITA, we were all in it together and humour helped a lot as bollockings were liberally and equitably dished out.
Never forgotten marching to an early morning ensign hoisting parade and, upon hearing a buzzing sound from the centre of our little formation, observed a cadet demonstrating multi-tasking with his battery electric razor.
So there's another thing - the mil produces loads of stories with which to bore wife, kids, airline pilots etc.
You don't know if you'll like it until you try it (as they say
)I even liked my short tour in ATC.
Although, as a 23yo ex MN officer, I found IOT a bit of a PITA, we were all in it together and humour helped a lot as bollockings were liberally and equitably dished out.
Never forgotten marching to an early morning ensign hoisting parade and, upon hearing a buzzing sound from the centre of our little formation, observed a cadet demonstrating multi-tasking with his battery electric razor.
So there's another thing - the mil produces loads of stories with which to bore wife, kids, airline pilots etc.
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I think you are not unique in having doubts about embarking on such a commitment as IOT and a future career in the RAF, and I remember before joining having concerns about some of the isolated locations and the demands of IOT. Throughout though, I had the enduring vision of flying military hardware, which provided more than sufficient motivation to counter my concerns and helped me get through the tough times of IOT.
Your concerns about not fitting-in are IMHO unfounded. A squadron, is made up of individuals, some of whom will be more socially gregarious than others, and since you have made it this far, someone has decided that you have sufficient social skills to be considered.
Whether or not the flying makes up for any or all of the downsides, is to an extent, up to you. I note that you have a preference for multis, but this may change as you go through flying training. It would be a shame to brush off the only opportunity you will ever have to fly high performance jets before you have had a taste of the more dynamic stages of training, and in any case, the training is set up to produce a FJ pilot. The other worthy specialisations normally stem from this format.
You have been offered an amazing opportunity but it's understandable that you want to make an informed decision. I'm slightly concerned that you mention a lot about what is to be gained, but given your talents and skills, you will be expected to lead, and that will require you to put others first. The training will help develop you as both a leader, and a good team member. If you consider these qualities to be "abstract ideals", then you need to reflect further, but if you consider that the assessment process has validated you as being worthy of this rare opportunity, then you should "pick up the gauntlet", give it your best, and enjoy the ride.
Your concerns about not fitting-in are IMHO unfounded. A squadron, is made up of individuals, some of whom will be more socially gregarious than others, and since you have made it this far, someone has decided that you have sufficient social skills to be considered.
Whether or not the flying makes up for any or all of the downsides, is to an extent, up to you. I note that you have a preference for multis, but this may change as you go through flying training. It would be a shame to brush off the only opportunity you will ever have to fly high performance jets before you have had a taste of the more dynamic stages of training, and in any case, the training is set up to produce a FJ pilot. The other worthy specialisations normally stem from this format.
You have been offered an amazing opportunity but it's understandable that you want to make an informed decision. I'm slightly concerned that you mention a lot about what is to be gained, but given your talents and skills, you will be expected to lead, and that will require you to put others first. The training will help develop you as both a leader, and a good team member. If you consider these qualities to be "abstract ideals", then you need to reflect further, but if you consider that the assessment process has validated you as being worthy of this rare opportunity, then you should "pick up the gauntlet", give it your best, and enjoy the ride.
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Do it.
You do not have to be "110% committed, it being the only thing you've ever wanted etc etc". Don't listen to those who talk about taking up spaces that more deserving people could have had. It's your life, do what's best for you.
I only came across the military during the final year at University when looking for a job to go to afterwards. I'd never even heard of the UAS. It sounded a bit more interesting that the run-of-the-mill graduate jobs that I was faced with.
I applied for a ground branch, but ended up as pilot when the recruiting officer said something along the lines of "why don't you want to be a pilot?".
There were times during IOT and fg trg when I seriously wanted to pack it in, but I just said to myself "one more day, give it one more day".
It took 17 more years before I finally said "no, no more days, I'm done".
If you really don't like it once you're in, then leave, but at least you tried.
Don't be the one in 5 years time who looks up at the {insert your favoured type of aircraft here} overhead and thinks "I could have done that".
You do not have to be "110% committed, it being the only thing you've ever wanted etc etc". Don't listen to those who talk about taking up spaces that more deserving people could have had. It's your life, do what's best for you.
I only came across the military during the final year at University when looking for a job to go to afterwards. I'd never even heard of the UAS. It sounded a bit more interesting that the run-of-the-mill graduate jobs that I was faced with.
I applied for a ground branch, but ended up as pilot when the recruiting officer said something along the lines of "why don't you want to be a pilot?".
There were times during IOT and fg trg when I seriously wanted to pack it in, but I just said to myself "one more day, give it one more day".
It took 17 more years before I finally said "no, no more days, I'm done".
If you really don't like it once you're in, then leave, but at least you tried.
Don't be the one in 5 years time who looks up at the {insert your favoured type of aircraft here} overhead and thinks "I could have done that".
Officer first pilot second! - those who believed in that usually went to staff college and ended up flying desks.. Those who didn't believe it usually went on to lead happy lives flying aircraft
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I know of only two people who approached RAF flying training with a, "let's do it for the s**ts n giggles, then get out and do something better" attitude.
One of them was sussed during IOT and given the boot, the other did a bit of fast jet work, left, and subsequently came a cropper in a flying accident of his own creation.
If your post is a considered action of a thoughtful, intelligent young man, well done for generating so many helpful replies. I'm sure you will reach the right decision.
If on the other hand, there is a certain arrogance and over-valued self worth in play here, do yourself a favour and stay away from piloting aircraft of any kind.
Those qualities don't play well in aviation.
One of them was sussed during IOT and given the boot, the other did a bit of fast jet work, left, and subsequently came a cropper in a flying accident of his own creation.
If your post is a considered action of a thoughtful, intelligent young man, well done for generating so many helpful replies. I'm sure you will reach the right decision.
If on the other hand, there is a certain arrogance and over-valued self worth in play here, do yourself a favour and stay away from piloting aircraft of any kind.
Those qualities don't play well in aviation.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Officer first pilot second! - those who believed in that usually went to staff college and ended up flying desks.. Those who didn't believe it usually went on to lead happy lives flying aircraft
There are indeed 2 schools ...
- I want to fly aeroplanes
- I want a career as an RAF officer
Staff College and Whitehall desks tend to produce a better pension [or at least it did].
If the OP intends to stay as a flt lt forever, flying, he'll be better paid in civil aviation ... or in some academic field.
As for pensions - a PA spine level 35 pension as a Flt Lt is equivalent to top rate Wg Cdr gusting Gp Capt but without all the crap
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... and a top rate wg cdr/gp capt pension = ???
There's a lot of maths involved. When I took the Redundancy money back in 92, my 'pay cut' took me out of the higher rate of tax ... which I was paying on substantial savings interest as well. I was actually flogging my butt off at MoD as a wg cdr for ~ £15k a year
YMMV, and I have no idea how the sums work these days. Too busy having holidays, and planning the next ones
There's a lot of maths involved. When I took the Redundancy money back in 92, my 'pay cut' took me out of the higher rate of tax ... which I was paying on substantial savings interest as well. I was actually flogging my butt off at MoD as a wg cdr for ~ £15k a year
YMMV, and I have no idea how the sums work these days. Too busy having holidays, and planning the next ones
Last edited by MPN11; 26th Oct 2017 at 08:12. Reason: spelling
On current rates a top level Wg Cdr pension after 35 years service is £39,738
A PA spine Flt Lt pilot on level 35 (top level) pension is £40,975
The PA spine allowed all the fg pay a Spec Aircrew officer received to be rolled up into his rank pay and it all became pensionable.
A PA spine Flt Lt pilot on level 35 (top level) pension is £40,975
The PA spine allowed all the fg pay a Spec Aircrew officer received to be rolled up into his rank pay and it all became pensionable.
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How bizarre ... Aircrew Bonus, of course.
"PA spine" ???
Such is life, when Retention matters
"PA spine" ???
Such is life, when Retention matters
Professional Aviator Spine - it replaced spec aircrew in a fairly spectacular way and, if you were the right age, gave you more money instantly and more money in your pension - very difficult to turn that down.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Professional Aviator Spine - it replaced spec aircrew in a fairly spectacular way and, if you were the right age, gave you more money instantly and more money in your pension - very difficult to turn that down.
Nice terminology. Shame they couldn't have woven 'RAF Officer' into that
We have a former VC-10 Captain around here who is VERY proud of making sqn ldr. He then poked off at the first opportunity to fly for [I think] Cathay. I'm sure he's a pilot, I just can't think of him as an officer ... and his general demeanour bears that out
After 12 years in RAF posts I spent 7 years on exchange with the AAC - when I came back to the RAF I think I surprised a few people by being a bit too 'officery'
Originally Posted by [email protected]
After 12 years in RAF posts I spent 7 years on exchange with the AAC - when I came back to the RAF I think I surprised a few people by being a bit too 'officery'
CG
When the Sgt Major gave me my light blue AAC beret he held it up and looked through the holes where the badge goes - he said 'Sir, when the sky is the same colour as the beret....that's when we let the officers go flying'
A strong argument for re-introducing NCO Pilots, there!
Myth busted?
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
but won't have half as much fun.
As for pensions - a PA spine level 35 pension as a Flt Lt is equivalent to top rate Wg Cdr gusting Gp Capt but without all the crap
As for pensions - a PA spine level 35 pension as a Flt Lt is equivalent to top rate Wg Cdr gusting Gp Capt but without all the crap
You also have to do 18/20 years before even being eligible right?! Bringing the PAS entry requirements earlier in one's fg career would surely help current manning issues*? Would certainly alter my current decision making.
*RAF FL is 100% manned
