UK MFTS on or off the rails?
What a depressing story. Not the least because the Air Comode prefixed every sentence with "so". I always thought that we DID have a world-class training system in the old (pre-politically coerrect!) days.
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Parson - Winging It
Parson, use the BBC website and search for "File on 4" the program "Winging It" is currently the latest one and is at the top of the list. On another point, I was only a Secondary school student, only attained the rank of Corporal and only closed Brüggen once by setting fire to the airfield. However, even I would NEVER start a sentence with "So" Maybe we'll get more from the Air Commode - "So, now it's time to view the phantom course skedule"
Listening to the R4 program now on the App. Shocking state of affairs. (Frightening to hear that holding officers were banned from talking to the MOD and had to do so incognito.)
From my experience, MFTS has taken an excellent helicopter training system and ruined it with holds of up to 2 YEARS leading to a front-line pipeline of 7.5 YEARS!
Someone at MOD should be lined up against a wall for this! You idiot senior officers who go through the public/private sector revolving door know who you are!!!!!
On a lighter note - the Sound of Silence comedy song by bored holding officers was good.
From my experience, MFTS has taken an excellent helicopter training system and ruined it with holds of up to 2 YEARS leading to a front-line pipeline of 7.5 YEARS!
Someone at MOD should be lined up against a wall for this! You idiot senior officers who go through the public/private sector revolving door know who you are!!!!!
On a lighter note - the Sound of Silence comedy song by bored holding officers was good.
This has been out since 2014 and also QRs before that meant that Service Personnel are not free to publically speak to the media or make political statements. The latter dates back to our last Civil War!
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I notice some on social media are kicking off about the company being paid for "phantom courses" that aren't the fault of Ascent.
Clearly they must have so much money, they don't need to work, never mind depend on a pay cheque to pay for a mortgage and put food on the table for their family. The people who work have to be paid, and to deny them a wage for petty political reasons for something out of their control is just evil.
Clearly they must have so much money, they don't need to work, never mind depend on a pay cheque to pay for a mortgage and put food on the table for their family. The people who work have to be paid, and to deny them a wage for petty political reasons for something out of their control is just evil.
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Beags,
Nobody starts a business to hire employees that don't do what is asked of them. To suggest Ascent are lazy as a company - a company trying to make a profit - does not match up with the experiences of just about all of us who have experience with the private sector.
By throwing spears at Ascent, you allow the government to dodge the issue when it's as clear as day that it was them, as it always is in just about every other department.
I found it amusing when it was claimed that "the RAF had just about caught up with the problem in 2015." Uh, no... the MoD made over half of the student pilots redundant and stopped recruiting pilots for a while. That wasn't them dealing with it, that was mere damage limitation and they had the cheek to invite guys back eight years down the line, who were well in to their second careers. I know of one guy who was offered a fast track return to a frontline fleet with a year's holding first. Just imagine what the normal wait time is?
He told them to sling it.
Nobody starts a business to hire employees that don't do what is asked of them. To suggest Ascent are lazy as a company - a company trying to make a profit - does not match up with the experiences of just about all of us who have experience with the private sector.
By throwing spears at Ascent, you allow the government to dodge the issue when it's as clear as day that it was them, as it always is in just about every other department.
I found it amusing when it was claimed that "the RAF had just about caught up with the problem in 2015." Uh, no... the MoD made over half of the student pilots redundant and stopped recruiting pilots for a while. That wasn't them dealing with it, that was mere damage limitation and they had the cheek to invite guys back eight years down the line, who were well in to their second careers. I know of one guy who was offered a fast track return to a frontline fleet with a year's holding first. Just imagine what the normal wait time is?
He told them to sling it.
BVRAAM - the problem lies with the piss-poor contracts that the MOD consistently enter into and the fact that someone wants to believe a snake-oil salesman when he tells them he can do the flying training job cheaper and better, despite not having any experience in the area.............
Most of the risk ends up being held by the MOD and little by the contractor - hence phantom courses and the contractor still getting paid for failure.
Most of the risk ends up being held by the MOD and little by the contractor - hence phantom courses and the contractor still getting paid for failure.
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Exactly, so it's not Ascent's fault. It's the government's fault for being idiots.
Their terrible policies are affecting my generation and it really isn't fair. I'm not whining, I am simply highlighting the fact that many of you reading this were Combat Ready on your first tour before you were 25, whereas in my generation, it's likely we'll be in to our thirties before actually being able to make a valuable contribution to the RAF, instead of being a senior officer's tea boy.
Their terrible policies are affecting my generation and it really isn't fair. I'm not whining, I am simply highlighting the fact that many of you reading this were Combat Ready on your first tour before you were 25, whereas in my generation, it's likely we'll be in to our thirties before actually being able to make a valuable contribution to the RAF, instead of being a senior officer's tea boy.
There will be plenty on here who remember the days when you could see a fully armed Bucc out on the flightline and a spotty Flying Officer wandering out to strap in. It'll get to the point where someone just gets frontline and is then short-toured due to promotion to Sqn Ldr and sent off to fly a desk for "career enhancement".
Don't forget we are talking about government administration that can employ a contractor to run a ferry service when the contractor has neither any experience of doing so, nor has any actual ferries.
Don't forget we are talking about government administration that can employ a contractor to run a ferry service when the contractor has neither any experience of doing so, nor has any actual ferries.
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Exactly, so it's not Ascent's fault. It's the government's fault for being idiots.
Their terrible policies are affecting my generation and it really isn't fair. I'm not whining, I am simply highlighting the fact that many of you reading this were Combat Ready on your first tour before you were 25, whereas in my generation, it's likely we'll be in to our thirties before actually being able to make a valuable contribution to the RAF, instead of being a senior officer's tea boy.
Their terrible policies are affecting my generation and it really isn't fair. I'm not whining, I am simply highlighting the fact that many of you reading this were Combat Ready on your first tour before you were 25, whereas in my generation, it's likely we'll be in to our thirties before actually being able to make a valuable contribution to the RAF, instead of being a senior officer's tea boy.
CK - I don't know about BVRAAM but I do know quite a lot of the "joining generation" (especially the highly driven/motivated ones are being put off. Ironically the UAS system is exposing the generation about to join to exactly what the situation is, as their former colleagues languish in holding.
Rest assured, there will not be a shortage of recruits to fly a Typhoon/Lightning. But will the RAF have the pick of the bunch? I suspect not!
Rest assured, there will not be a shortage of recruits to fly a Typhoon/Lightning. But will the RAF have the pick of the bunch? I suspect not!
Exactly, so it's not Ascent's fault.
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Crab,
Exactly, and who wrote the requirement document and who decided which bid fitted the requirements.
Ascent appear to have played a bit of a blinder in making a proposal that significantly undershot the requirements....and got away with it, so far! Although they are probably not wholly to blame.
Having listened to the file on 4 programme it appears that there are some senior people in MOD and the Military who may be described as 'taking money under false pretences'.
For those of us who have been involved in the training systems to be able to forecast several years ago that this was destined for trouble it gives less confidence in the abilities of those in charge. Our adversaries may have little to fear.
Bring back the skeeter!!!
Exactly, and who wrote the requirement document and who decided which bid fitted the requirements.
Ascent appear to have played a bit of a blinder in making a proposal that significantly undershot the requirements....and got away with it, so far! Although they are probably not wholly to blame.
Having listened to the file on 4 programme it appears that there are some senior people in MOD and the Military who may be described as 'taking money under false pretences'.
For those of us who have been involved in the training systems to be able to forecast several years ago that this was destined for trouble it gives less confidence in the abilities of those in charge. Our adversaries may have little to fear.
Bring back the skeeter!!!
Last edited by Squat switch; 7th Mar 2019 at 16:52.
I'm not absolving them of blame for the current situation, just providing some fact, which as usual, is somewhat lacking in a prune thread.
‘Has it put you off joining?’ is the wrong question; the young and carefree will certainly stick at it in sufficient number to keep the system primed for no other reason than they want to fly. The real crisis is going to come when we have increasing numbers of aircrew reaching their early-mid 30s with only a single tour under their belts. That age is when people’s priorities start to change and mid-career decisions start to be made. With 2 or 3 tours to your name, you have an idea of where you stand in the organisation and whether staying in is the right long-term decision. With only a single tour and less idea where your career is heading, the temptation to leave for pastures new will be so much more attractive. Give it 10 years and see what happens!
Last edited by Easy Street; 8th Mar 2019 at 00:04.
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At the moment, no, because I am single, don't have any children and therefore I have the luxury of being carefree.
I want to fly on operations so at the moment it's worth becoming an A1 certified tea maker. Life always does change though so ask me the same question when I am 2 years in to an indefinite holding period.
I want to fly on operations so at the moment it's worth becoming an A1 certified tea maker. Life always does change though so ask me the same question when I am 2 years in to an indefinite holding period.