UK MFTS on or off the rails?
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Meanwhile, on a tropical island just off the coast of Wales. All of the students were sent home on a six month gardening leave before Xmas, as there is nobody to teach them.
Then, only 3½ months later, they are told to come back. They will need to get back up to speed and try to start learning the aircraft again. In the next 12 to 14 months, all of the experienced QFIs at Valley will be gone, some from Valley and some from the RAF.
Can it really be true that the Ascent contract has no provision for QFI training, only Pilots? That would mean that it's not Ascent's fault that their are no QFIs to teach the students. Who wrote this contract? I wonder if it is the same people who signed up for aircraft carriers that cost the same to not build, as to actually have them?
With Ascent being paid to produce new pilots out of Valley, to go to the squadrons, they will be able to get their money. When the well runs dry they can say that it is not their fault, and no doubt there will be a penalty clause, as the school is all geared up for students but has no teachers.
Maybe at that point Babcock can come along and (at huge cost) save the day with a host of recently ex RAF QFIs with Hawk experience. Maybe not, if by then the guys have gone to the airlines or Tabuk, to be treated like grown ups.
Then, only 3½ months later, they are told to come back. They will need to get back up to speed and try to start learning the aircraft again. In the next 12 to 14 months, all of the experienced QFIs at Valley will be gone, some from Valley and some from the RAF.
Can it really be true that the Ascent contract has no provision for QFI training, only Pilots? That would mean that it's not Ascent's fault that their are no QFIs to teach the students. Who wrote this contract? I wonder if it is the same people who signed up for aircraft carriers that cost the same to not build, as to actually have them?
With Ascent being paid to produce new pilots out of Valley, to go to the squadrons, they will be able to get their money. When the well runs dry they can say that it is not their fault, and no doubt there will be a penalty clause, as the school is all geared up for students but has no teachers.
Maybe at that point Babcock can come along and (at huge cost) save the day with a host of recently ex RAF QFIs with Hawk experience. Maybe not, if by then the guys have gone to the airlines or Tabuk, to be treated like grown ups.
As for all the experience leaving, again rubbish. Experience always leaves, this is called tour! At the end of your 3 years you move on like any other fast jet Sqn. At the same time the junior QFIs step up, prove themselves as A2s and are the new experienced guys. Ps there are also plenty of long term A2s who aren’t going anywhere for a long time!
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godsavethequeen, are you saying that you don't know abut the 6 month gardening leave for QFI students?
If it takes 2 years to become a Hawk T2 QFI, how long will they be productive for before their next tour begins?
If it takes 2 years to become a Hawk T2 QFI, how long will they be productive for before their next tour begins?
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This shows how little you know about what’s really going on and how much rumour mill has expanded.
Non of the SQFIs went/are on 6 months gardening leave.
Do you really think a tour starts at the beginning of the training? If you go to any FL jet your tour doesn’t start until you complete the OCU, same here.
And as for 2 years to complete, you definetly have no idea. Not saying it’s done as quickly as humanly possible, no where near 2 years though!
Guess you will have to find some other rubbish to spread. Not here to argue just making sure you have th correct facts
Non of the SQFIs went/are on 6 months gardening leave.
Do you really think a tour starts at the beginning of the training? If you go to any FL jet your tour doesn’t start until you complete the OCU, same here.
And as for 2 years to complete, you definetly have no idea. Not saying it’s done as quickly as humanly possible, no where near 2 years though!
Guess you will have to find some other rubbish to spread. Not here to argue just making sure you have th correct facts
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Are you being ever so careful with your words?
Who did get sent home at the end of the year, and why?
Now that they are back, what are they doing, and how long were they away for?
When a freshly minted Pilot leaves Valley, to go to a Typhoon Squadron, what's the minimum total hours you would expect them to have, and over how many years would that have been accumulated?
Who did get sent home at the end of the year, and why?
Now that they are back, what are they doing, and how long were they away for?
When a freshly minted Pilot leaves Valley, to go to a Typhoon Squadron, what's the minimum total hours you would expect them to have, and over how many years would that have been accumulated?
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Bob Viking
I think you may have missed my point. The civvies and Mil I know are most definately not full of glee at the prospect of MFTS failing. They are desperately sad, as they feel passionately about delivering the highest quality of training. The students will be the ones who suffer, nobody else.
We really care, perhaps too much.
I think you may have missed my point. The civvies and Mil I know are most definately not full of glee at the prospect of MFTS failing. They are desperately sad, as they feel passionately about delivering the highest quality of training. The students will be the ones who suffer, nobody else.
We really care, perhaps too much.
EI
My point wasn’t directed at you.
I’ve been in the same situation you describe a few years back and I’m happy to say it sorted itself over time.
My ire is directed at those that throw spears despite no direct involvement.
BV
I’ve been in the same situation you describe a few years back and I’m happy to say it sorted itself over time.
My ire is directed at those that throw spears despite no direct involvement.
BV
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Bob, when the people involved have been muzzled, who is left to throw spears except those of us on the outside?
I'm only asking questions, as a taxpayer, who left Valley before the first Hawk arrived.
What is it, if not incompetence and greed, that Ascent have to hide?
So far I find only three people defending any part of the MFTS contracts, despite the large number of people in the know, and nobody from within has a bad word to post on here about it.
Why is the rumour mill going so hard? Why are people private messaging each other with tales of how bad it is, and reminders that they are not allowed to speak out?
Despite rules about keeping quiet, it seems that some of you are allowed to post, provided you toe the party line.
Is this dissent in the crewrooms all in my mind? Is it all great and on track? Are all of the people being trained all the time, or are they sitting around waiting for a slot to appear?
In short, could it be done better, and if so, why is it not?
I'm only asking questions, as a taxpayer, who left Valley before the first Hawk arrived.
What is it, if not incompetence and greed, that Ascent have to hide?
So far I find only three people defending any part of the MFTS contracts, despite the large number of people in the know, and nobody from within has a bad word to post on here about it.
Why is the rumour mill going so hard? Why are people private messaging each other with tales of how bad it is, and reminders that they are not allowed to speak out?
Despite rules about keeping quiet, it seems that some of you are allowed to post, provided you toe the party line.
Is this dissent in the crewrooms all in my mind? Is it all great and on track? Are all of the people being trained all the time, or are they sitting around waiting for a slot to appear?
In short, could it be done better, and if so, why is it not?
Because it's winter and folk are bored.
Many ex-mil instructors are very aware that they cannot be as critical of their civilian masters as they could of their military ones - they want to keep their jobs so few will put their heads above the parapet and make public statements here or in the press.
As EE says, if everything is so rosy, why is there so much grumbling.
Without doubt much is due, on the RW side, to seeing a perfectly excellent system (DHFS) replaced for the sake of cost-saving with a new, unproven and very ambitious system that seems hell-bent on efficiency but with very little focus on the quality of the training that will be delivered.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
As EE says, if everything is so rosy, why is there so much grumbling. [sic]
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Without doubt much is due, on the RW side, to seeing a perfectly excellent system (DHFS) replaced for the sake of cost-saving with a new, unproven and very ambitious system that seems hell-bent on efficiency but with very little focus on the quality of the training that will be delivered.
So in what way are the 135 and 145 representative of the front-line types?
They are shiny and new (unlike much of the front-line) and very representative of what a pilot might fly in commercial ops but military??
Lots of bells and whistles on the aircraft (which I'm led to believe the students won't actually get to use) and pretty powerful (again unlike much of front-line ops where performance is often an issue) so what are you actually teaching them.
As for the qualifications for supervisors - with mainly the same people being employed under the new system, how is that going to be better than the outgoing one?
They are shiny and new (unlike much of the front-line) and very representative of what a pilot might fly in commercial ops but military??
Lots of bells and whistles on the aircraft (which I'm led to believe the students won't actually get to use) and pretty powerful (again unlike much of front-line ops where performance is often an issue) so what are you actually teaching them.
As for the qualifications for supervisors - with mainly the same people being employed under the new system, how is that going to be better than the outgoing one?
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I trust that if the EC*** crewmen’s crash seat is unfit for purpose; or worse still hazardous to health, that the ASIMs process is in overdrive. You cannot and should not sweep flight safety under the carpet. The Duty Holder would be foolish to play statistic roulette with aircrew necks, for sooner or later somebody will get hurt.
Multi engine, glass cockpit
Some don't believe there are enough aircraft in the bid - working all your fleet hard will cause problems with servicing, especially when C checks come around.
Spot 4 - this late in the process, a senior officer will be made to carry the risk, even if it is the crews who will 'wear' that risk every day. The ASIMS and MAA is paper-safety.
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I trust that if the EC*** crewmen’s crash seat is unfit for purpose; or worse still hazardous to health, that the ASIMs process is in overdrive. You cannot and should not sweep flight safety under the carpet. The Duty Holder would be foolish to play statistic roulette with aircrew necks, for sooner or later somebody will get hurt.
But not the duty holder. That's whole point of the thread about the MoD avoiding the blame for Flt. Lt. Cunningham's death.
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I am not sure anybody is really stepping up into being responsible for flight safety. Take the Phenom, you have Instructors writing course materials who have never flown the aircraft.
An ongoing argument about what ratings are actually required for civilians to fly and teach on the aircraft.
A curriculum that will have students with around 80hrs total time as pilots being handed the keys to a biz jet and being told to go off an fly together. Instructors that will have virtually no time on type before being expected to take command and teach on type.
In the civil world this would have an ATO shut down for negligence and the Head of Training dealt with accordingly. There is no such position in Ascent, just a bunch of self professed ex RAF "experts" who don't know a thing about civil regulation attempting to bluster there way through.
What will be interesting to see is the first board of inquiry.........
An ongoing argument about what ratings are actually required for civilians to fly and teach on the aircraft.
A curriculum that will have students with around 80hrs total time as pilots being handed the keys to a biz jet and being told to go off an fly together. Instructors that will have virtually no time on type before being expected to take command and teach on type.
In the civil world this would have an ATO shut down for negligence and the Head of Training dealt with accordingly. There is no such position in Ascent, just a bunch of self professed ex RAF "experts" who don't know a thing about civil regulation attempting to bluster there way through.
What will be interesting to see is the first board of inquiry.........
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bose-x - what exactly is your job please. I'm trying to decide if you actually know what you are nay-saying about or if you are have just relieved the driver on the prune outrage bus
