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UK MFTS on or off the rails?

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UK MFTS on or off the rails?

Old 5th Feb 2018, 15:21
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
There still isn't a syllabus for anyone to look at and very few instructors know if they will have a job yet post contract change.

The mil/civ balance has been been constantly assured yet the mil don't look like they have enough QHIs to fill their slots - and since so few are A2s anyway, all the experience will still be in the civ cohort.

The belief is that the contract was significantly underbid so what will be the plan B if it falls over commercially?????

Slow motion train-crash anyone?
There is a syllabus to look at, but - shock horror - it hasn't been sent to everyone who is carping from (some distance beyond) the sidelines.

The relative paucity of mil A2s is nothing new - no reason to raise that as a big concern. The uncertainty for the civ aircrew (and engineers) is very unfortunate, but also inevitable as Ascent wait for HMG to change the goalposts yet again (or not - the Lady hasn't yet decided if she's for turning Pumas or Wildcats into razor blades).

Plan B - one trusts that Ascent's money men weren't borrowed from Soteria...no doubt they have got the financial side nicely sewn up...
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 18:47
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Shawbury was once a very nice place but, as a 135/145 engineer, I wouldn't touch their traditional pay scales til well beyond the upper edge...
So I assume they (MFTS) will generate their own home-grown maintenance and engineering staff and pay them some bonemeal and gruel.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 19:31
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TorqueOfTheDevil View Post
There is a syllabus to look at, but - shock horror - it hasn't been sent to everyone who is carping from (some distance beyond) the sidelines.

The relative paucity of mil A2s is nothing new - no reason to raise that as a big concern. The uncertainty for the civ aircrew (and engineers) is very unfortunate, but also inevitable as Ascent wait for HMG to change the goalposts yet again (or not - the Lady hasn't yet decided if she's for turning Pumas or Wildcats into razor blades).

Plan B - one trusts that Ascent's money men weren't borrowed from Soteria...no doubt they have got the financial side nicely sewn up...
I would love to see this course of which you speak for the Phenom.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 21:12
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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There is a syllabus to look at, but - shock horror - it hasn't been sent to everyone who is carping from (some distance beyond) the sidelines.
nor the instructors who will have to teach it nor CFS(H).........

The paucity of Mil A2s IS an issue - where are the experienced Flt Cdrs coming from, where are the supervisors and who will be on CFS(H)?

As for Ascent's money men - lets hope they weren't borrowed from Carillion.........
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 21:45
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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bose-x, surely there will have been a TNA produced for RAF ME pilot training? In which there will have been a training gap analysis, training media assessment and a recommended course design?

Of course if the TNA was based on the training gap analysis for a given input standard, which was subsequently changed, then it will no longer be valid.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 01:20
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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no doubt they have got the financial side nicely sewn up

I am sure they have; what they don't seem to have sewn up quite so well is:

  • The syllabi
  • Experienced flight commanders and supervisors
  • Licenced engineers (willing to top up with their pension, in a market they don't need to)
  • An airframe that is fit for purpose in regard to rearcrew training (50% of the throughput).
But ,yes, no doubt they have the financial side nicely sewn up.


Pedant note: Soteria wasn't a bidder on MFTS so I am not sure why you are using a slightly irrelevant comparison?
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 07:03
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
bose-x, surely there will have been a TNA produced for RAF ME pilot training? In which there will have been a training gap analysis, training media assessment and a recommended course design?

Of course if the TNA was based on the training gap analysis for a given input standard, which was subsequently changed, then it will no longer be valid.
I would more wonder about people who have no qualification on type and are working out how to do things in the sim having never flown the type writing training materials would produce the correct output standard?
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 10:16
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Are the civvies, who run training at Valley, further down this road?

All this talk about rotary and multi engine stuff has avoided the IV Squadron QFI output, to train the trainers for 208 to train the new typhoon drivers.

Can we at least be cheered up that one part of the system is working as planned, and as required, and on target?
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 13:48
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
nor the instructors who will have to teach it nor CFS(H).........

The paucity of Mil A2s IS an issue - where are the experienced Flt Cdrs coming from, where are the supervisors and who will be on CFS(H)?
The relevant syllabuses are available to those involved in delivering them.

Your comment about A2s shows how little you know about the way Shawbury runs - the Flt Cdrs have been typically fresh B1s who need something sexy on their OJAR. They usually hand over the Flt Cdr gig to allow them time to prepare for an A2...and those who achieve the upgrade either get promoted, get posted, or leave! Or, in a few cases, move to CFS(H). And being an A2 isn't needed to be a supervisor - there are some A2s who have made terrible bosses/supervisors, and plenty of B1s who have done very well.

MGD, the reference to Soteria was purely a nod to Crab's background, rather than any suggestion of a link between them and Ascent! And crewman training is only a small fraction of the RW task - this isn't to say that the rumours surrounding suitability of the Juno for crewman training, if true, aren't concerning and disappointing - but it is misleading to suggest that the new aircraft might be unsuited to 50% of Ascent's task.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 13:53
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Airpolice
to train the trainers for 208 to train the new typhoon drivers.
Except its nearly 2 years since 208 disbanded.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 16:39
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Your comment about A2s shows how little you know about the way Shawbury runs - the Flt Cdrs have been typically fresh B1s who need something sexy on their OJAR. They usually hand over the Flt Cdr gig to allow them time to prepare for an A2..
your comment shows how little you know about how Shawbury is supposed to run, was run and should be run. All Flt Cdrs and Sqn Bosses used to have to be A2 but there aren't enough to go round so B1s are used instead. Having A2s in the important posts allows better supervision, standardisation, assessment and oversight, especially of struggling students. That goes hand in hand with mentoring B2s and progressing B1s to A2.

Exactly who has got the syllabi then? Since no-one isactually delivering the training I assume from your political answer, not very many and certainly not those capable of scrutinising it with a professional eye.

I don't know what you think I had to do with Soteria, you do know it was Bristow who got UKSAR??
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 11:23
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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How about the authority pilots who have never flown the aircraft being asked to train the Ascent Instructors in order the Ascent Instructors can be made to write the training course? A second generation of pilots who have never flown the aircraft.......
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 11:24
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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TorqueoftheDevil

Your facts are incorrect. Rearcrew training makes up in excess of 50% of the rotary training task under MFTS, and NOT a small fraction.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 13:44
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
your comment shows how little you know about how Shawbury is supposed to run, was run and should be run. All Flt Cdrs and Sqn Bosses used to have to be A2 but there aren't enough to go round so B1s are used instead. Having A2s in the important posts allows better supervision, standardisation, assessment and oversight, especially of struggling students. That goes hand in hand with mentoring B2s and progressing B1s to A2.
It's always such a privilege when the King of the World takes the time to tell us how we should be doing our jobs. I must confess, Your Majesty, that DHFS has been doing it wrong all these years. Thank Goodness we're starting with a clean sheet rather than clinging onto the old, substandard system. Those poor, poor students from the last 20 years...

Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Exactly who has got the syllabi then? Since no-one isactually delivering the training I assume from your political answer, not very many and certainly not those capable of scrutinising it with a professional eye.
I must be seeing things. Or maybe the Junos which appear to be busy on training sorties are simply floating around the skies aimlessly, terrorising the residents of Shropshire for no reason at all.

Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I don't know what you think I had to do with Soteria, you do know it was Bristow who got UKSAR??
Again, I consider myself both enlightened, and grateful for the enlightenment. But then it's hard to keep up to date with everything when I'm so busy delivering terrible flying training. One thing I seem to recall a while ago was your repeated forecasts of doom (suspended for a short period when Bristow were recruiting - obviously, it would be wrong for royalty to interfere during such a delicate process) about civvies taking over SAR - could you just confirm that Bristow SAR has been an unmitigated disaster?
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 14:40
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Soteria was Thales who had nothing to do with MFTS.
MFTS(RW) must surely all be staffed now, bar the shouting. Come April - it's 'away the lads' - into the great unknown, training those 6 lads and lasses needed to staff the front line of our glorious 21st century fighting force.
In fact, surely Ascent must have a bigger complement than the RAF, no?
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 15:32
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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TOTD - perhaps you should ask around the grown-ups at Shawbury to find out that what I describe regarding A2s and superivison was exactly what happened at Shawbury under DHFS for many years - the gradual depletion of the number of A2s was not intentional but happened because fewer QHIs wanted the nause of doing the upgrade.

Are you seeing any students training on the Juno? Oh no, that will be the staff being converted onto type which will be a completely different syllabus from the main Shawbury course - that is what I mean about no syllabus, the one for the main course is AWOL.

You might be interested to know that Bristow are struggling financially and the UKSAR contract is the only thing keeping them profitable - despite this they are pushing hard to cut costs within SAR so it certainly isn't all sweetness and light there.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 16:14
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In fact, surely Ascent must have a bigger complement than the RAF, no?
Ascent is the same people rebadged into civilian uniforms. I wonder where delivering civilian expertise actually came into the equation?

Perhaps the RAF should have been given the shiny new buildings and kit and been left to get on with it.........
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 16:51
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Thomas coupling and bose-x

On rotary 59 out of 102 instructors are military, and on fixed wing 71 out of 133 are military.

Hardly as you portray eh?
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 18:13
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Thomas coupling and bose-x

On rotary 59 out of 102 instructors are military, and on fixed wing 71 out of 133 are military.

Hardly as you portray eh?
Actually I was referring to the company as a whole.

However on fixed wing Grob and Phenom out of the few civilian Instructors only a couple are not ex mil.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 18:51
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Wow, lots of opinions floating around here. I can see not many of them are informed.


Be advised, those of us actually doing the job don't really care about your uninformed opinions.


Do please carry on though, it provides moments of entertainment in days otherwise interrupted by....oh yes, flying. Students too!
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