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UK MFTS on or off the rails?

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UK MFTS on or off the rails?

Old 1st Mar 2018, 19:15
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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Briefing employees about commercial security within an organisation, and not to broadcast any unauthorised news about that organisation in an uncontrolled manner, including the threat of punitive actions and dismissal, is a normal commercial practice.

It is sometimes emphasised to employees if there are obvious public events or occasions where the company wants to control press reporting about contentious subjects or new developments happening - where contentious can mean redundancy talks, etc. as well as discussing company/trade secrets or processes outside the premises. So 'gagging' instructions are not abnormal and are most often commercially driven.

This is why you only read of ex-employees (from waitresses to Chiefs of Staff) mouthing off about how their old company was really rubbish (and often just after getting their 'K')
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 17:27
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rigga View Post
Briefing employees about commercial security within an organisation, and not to broadcast any unauthorised news about that organisation in an uncontrolled manner, including the threat of punitive actions and dismissal, is a normal commercial practice.

It is sometimes emphasised to employees if there are obvious public events or occasions where the company wants to control press reporting about contentious subjects or new developments happening - where contentious can mean redundancy talks, etc. as well as discussing company/trade secrets or processes outside the premises. So 'gagging' instructions are not abnormal and are most often commercially driven.

This is why you only read of ex-employees (from waitresses to Chiefs of Staff) mouthing off about how their old company was really rubbish (and often just after getting their 'K')
Spot on. However, do you think it is a different case here because, firstly, it is public money involved, NOT Ascents, and secondly, the Mil are working hand in glove with Ascent and they are not bound by anything Ascent say.

Also, all of us Ascent people, mil people, or those working for other contractors are mates. We're (almost) all ex-forces, and we have known each other for years. It is ridiculous to think people won't talk. This is exacerbated by the fact that we are all very knowledgeable and know when something is wrong and won't sit back and let it happen.

There is a saying that 'all that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing'. Now, before I get lambasted, I am not calling Ascent evil!, but the sentiment is true though. Most of Ascents plans are good. Infra is coming along. Courseware is a work in progress but will get there.

Some of their plans, though, are ridiculous, doomed to failure, and the students will be the ones who suffer.

We will talk, because people won't listen.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 18:17
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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Also, all of us Ascent people, mil people, or those working for other contractors are mates. We're (almost) all ex-forces, and we have known each other for years. It is ridiculous to think people won't talk.
Of course we all talk to each other. The company use the "old boys network" to recruit and vet staff, but then think it can be suspended in order to cover up the cracks.... mental!

Is there nobody at the top in Ascent who might ask why the guys at the coalface feel obliged to talk to outsiders about the problems?

What kind of company is it that thinks the best way to address safety fears, is to stop people talking about what scares them?

I'm not on about differences in opinion on how to run the business, I would dismiss the views of a 40 year old man, with only 22 years military service, when he tells me how to run a business at a profit. Business is business and should be left to business people to sort. Not to be tugged in every direction possible by Politicians and Fighter Pilots.

But somewhere in there, between going for the lowest bidder and pricing the work correctly at the start, you need to hear the knocking noise from the engine room. Full speed ahead can only continue while the engine is going well.

QFIs need to teach the students to fly, and Business Relationship Managers need to manage the relationships. The client has agreed to outsource the choosing of aircraft, so Ascent has chosen. The QFIs need to do what they get the big bucks for, which is to teach people to fly that aircraft.

Somebody needs to have an ear to ground though, there must be an open door for people to vice their fears. Nobody expects senior managers to give as hit about the opinions on business matters of the troops, but safety issues, well that stuff should never ever be swept under the carpet.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 21:13
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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I have been in your situation(s) and of course you talk to each other. But your situation isn't new and unheard of. Many larger companies suffer this mumbling syndrome, whether civil or civil/mil mixed.

Everyone has an opinion and, many times, those opinions don't matter to the management. Look at the British armed forces in general, let alone this small part which is the Ascent training system.

Gagging orders don't stop talking, but they generally stop blabbing to the press. Whoever is at the top, be they Military or civil, doesn't want this story going to the press in a non-spindoctored, uncontrolled fashion.

Again. Wittering on here won't get it changed. A more formal route is needed. Such as an FOI request...
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 17:09
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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Going back to the original title of this thread... how is it now all going? I ask as an interested party due to be on a course at Shawbury at some stage in the future... rumours are that it is more off the rails than on?
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 18:52
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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“Teething Problems”...

The problem is that they are all “teething” at the same time!!!
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 06:53
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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Beeb reporting a lot of pilots holding.

On the plus side, I see they are running some Phantom courses so not all bad news then......
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 06:56
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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Link is worth posting - an interesting read https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47420698
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 07:04
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Chris K - I tried but my 'cut & paste' button doesn't seem to be working this morning.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 07:47
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Parson View Post
Beeb reporting a lot of pilots holding.

On the plus side, I see they are running some Phantom courses so not all bad news then......
And Lightning ones too, no doubt....you would hope.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 07:51
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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Treble One - well if based at Valley they would easily have enough endurance to man the Anglesey QRA.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 15:54
  #232 (permalink)  
 
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'Unable to fly over water'

Reading the link in Chris Kebabs post, the unnamed source made the strange claim that the newly supplied US built trainers ( T-6 Texan?) are unable to fly over water. Ignoring the fact they were ferried across the Atlantic, does a plausible explanation exist for this claim?
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:09
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BTC8183 View Post
Reading the link in Chris Kebabs post, the unnamed source made the strange claim that the newly supplied US built trainers ( T-6 Texan?) are unable to fly over water. Ignoring the fact they were ferried across the Atlantic, does a plausible explanation exist for this claim?
I heard it was not that the Texans couldn't fly over water, which is a ridiculous claim, but that the cockpit was too small to fit Pilot+Growbag+Immersion Suit/LifeJacket. Apparently, in America they fly them in jeans and a T Shirt.
Probably not true though.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:09
  #234 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BTC8183 View Post
Reading the link in Chris Kebabs post, the unnamed source made the strange claim that the newly supplied US built trainers ( T-6 Texan?) are unable to fly over water. Ignoring the fact they were ferried across the Atlantic, does a plausible explanation exist for this claim?
Probably something to do with the (US) cockpit’s compatability with U.K. AEA: life jackets, immersion suits etc.

Last edited by Timelord; 5th Mar 2019 at 16:22.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:20
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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It is a well known FACT that there are fewer lift-fairies living over the sea than the land. Whilst the concentration of Bernoullis is higher, the amount of suction they produce does not compensate for the loss in lift.

Simples.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:54
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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To answer the original posters question, obviously well off the rails, has this whole privatization of the training system ever been on the rails?
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 17:03
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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Clarified

Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger View Post
It is a well known FACT that there are fewer lift-fairies living over the sea than the land. Whilst the concentration of Bernoullis is higher, the amount of suction they produce does not compensate for the loss in lift.

Simples.
Wow, I thought that excuse was in reserve for the P-8 😱.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 18:55
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BTC8183 View Post
Reading the link in Chris Kebabs post, the unnamed source made the strange claim that the newly supplied US built trainers ( T-6 Texan?) are unable to fly over water. Ignoring the fact they were ferried across the Atlantic, does a plausible explanation exist for this claim?
I'd heard it was rotary that couldn't fly over the oggin due to a problem with SE.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 19:43
  #239 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger View Post
It is a well known FACT that there are fewer lift-fairies living over the sea than the land. Whilst the concentration of Bernoullis is higher, the amount of suction they produce does not compensate for the loss in lift.

Simples.
I think we all need to be careful posting sensitive information of this nature in a public forum. We wouldn't want it getting into the press.



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Old 5th Mar 2019, 21:23
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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The BBC programme was most interesting. The MoD spokesman came across as an utter snake oil salesman who I wouldn't trust to run a bath, let alone a military training system.

The Phenom mid air collision was also mentioned - has there yet been a report released to the public, or is this something else which the MoD is trying to cover up?
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