Typhoon crash in Italy
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Does not look like gee-loc, as nose was moving until impact. Looks more like the Hunter crash in England except speed over the top on this one seemed very high/altitude too low, like the Blue Angel crash a ways back. It also looked like he/she held the nose down a bit too long before pulling, and increasing speed the whole way, and may have been "playing" the level off altitude until too late.
My understanding of the Tiffie is it is very capable of high AoA, and this plane was not at a very high AoA upon impact. Maybe a gee limiter in play? Our Viper could not pull 9 gees at the max AoA, and our max AoA was very low compared to the F-22 and F-35 and SU-27 and........
Over-the-water stuff is not easy! The Blues have had a few close calls, but they practice over-water stuff more than most.
Need a Tiffie pilot to opine.
My understanding of the Tiffie is it is very capable of high AoA, and this plane was not at a very high AoA upon impact. Maybe a gee limiter in play? Our Viper could not pull 9 gees at the max AoA, and our max AoA was very low compared to the F-22 and F-35 and SU-27 and........
Over-the-water stuff is not easy! The Blues have had a few close calls, but they practice over-water stuff more than most.
Need a Tiffie pilot to opine.
Last edited by gums; 24th Sep 2017 at 17:29. Reason: typo's
Looks very much like high onset rate g-loc to me. You can see a very aggressive increase in pitch rate as the nose reaches the vertical, presumably just as the GPWS triggers realisation of the situation; after a couple of seconds the pitch rate inexplicably drops to almost nothing. Onset as rapid as that causes g-loc with no warning symptoms, and there is no way that the pilot was 'playing the level off' when spearing through the minimum height like that. Notwithstanding, the primary cause appears likely yet again to be a missed gate on a rolling/vertical combination; yet again display flying takes its toll.
Last edited by Easy Street; 24th Sep 2017 at 20:23.
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Sad, sad news.
Have to agree with gums wrt his thoughts. Typhoon can quite easily bite as it appears to have done on this occasion. What appears to be high speed, nose low, possibly with reheat still selected can only point to running out of turn performance as a result of aoa limiting into g limiting. Would be surprised if it’s g-loc/technical issues. Gate achieved but too fast? Only time will tell.
Thoughts with all those involved including those watching.
Have to agree with gums wrt his thoughts. Typhoon can quite easily bite as it appears to have done on this occasion. What appears to be high speed, nose low, possibly with reheat still selected can only point to running out of turn performance as a result of aoa limiting into g limiting. Would be surprised if it’s g-loc/technical issues. Gate achieved but too fast? Only time will tell.
Thoughts with all those involved including those watching.
You could be right, Easy.
I can see a very slight decrease in pitch rate right at the end, and maybe the pilot was still pulling a bit when unconscious. Unlike the Viper, looks like the Tiffie stick moves a bit.
My only gee-loc experience reflected most that we had in early Viper years. Student studly went from a few gees to 1 gee or maybe a bit less as we were pulling back into the "bandit" at our high 6. Both of us were looking over our shoulder and suddenly the gee went way down and I thot he was extending to gain some energy. When I looked forward, his helmet was banging off the canopy rail!! Heh heh. Our initial group had a few of those examples and one has been on TV several times.
Thing about gee-loc is not the total gee but the rate it increases unless you have "clinched up" before yanking. Rarely happens in a prolonged fight. I have a HUD video that showed me in a "break" and gee got to about 8.4 or so. I grunted first for maybe a half a second and then I only held the ge for 3 or 4 seconds. At 20 deg/sec or more turn rate, you do not need to hold it for very long.
Just saying.
I can see a very slight decrease in pitch rate right at the end, and maybe the pilot was still pulling a bit when unconscious. Unlike the Viper, looks like the Tiffie stick moves a bit.
My only gee-loc experience reflected most that we had in early Viper years. Student studly went from a few gees to 1 gee or maybe a bit less as we were pulling back into the "bandit" at our high 6. Both of us were looking over our shoulder and suddenly the gee went way down and I thot he was extending to gain some energy. When I looked forward, his helmet was banging off the canopy rail!! Heh heh. Our initial group had a few of those examples and one has been on TV several times.
Thing about gee-loc is not the total gee but the rate it increases unless you have "clinched up" before yanking. Rarely happens in a prolonged fight. I have a HUD video that showed me in a "break" and gee got to about 8.4 or so. I grunted first for maybe a half a second and then I only held the ge for 3 or 4 seconds. At 20 deg/sec or more turn rate, you do not need to hold it for very long.
Just saying.
Pretty sobering to watch.
Even if GLOC was/was not a factor I assume that given the rate of descent, the seat would have been outside it's envelope?
What happens when the handle is pulled in such a situation?
The seat departs the aircraft but just follows the flight profile of the aircraft?
Even if GLOC was/was not a factor I assume that given the rate of descent, the seat would have been outside it's envelope?
What happens when the handle is pulled in such a situation?
The seat departs the aircraft but just follows the flight profile of the aircraft?
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goes to show even the best can get caught.
Tartare there's a 60s video on YT called ejection vectors..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxi_rqAW9vM
Tartare there's a 60s video on YT called ejection vectors..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxi_rqAW9vM
Well, without FDR data, it's hard to estimate when the seat envelope was exited. There was Thunderbirds' solo crash a few years ago, where the pilot made the gate on the top of the downward half-loop, problem was it was for the wrong, lower elevation field. He punched out relatively safely when he realized he could not complete maneuver above ground level.
https://youtu.be/alo_XWCqNUQ
https://youtu.be/alo_XWCqNUQ
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Too many crashes, IMHO, during such shows. Probably rules should be tightened regarding minimum altitude for such manoeuvres and giving a larger margin if anything goes wrong.
This tragic crash is quite similar to the one, also happened in Italian skies in Sept. 1990 with Su-27 and a pilot who I knew well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wlnnZZsx2k (from 1'10" through 1'25").
This tragic crash is quite similar to the one, also happened in Italian skies in Sept. 1990 with Su-27 and a pilot who I knew well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wlnnZZsx2k (from 1'10" through 1'25").
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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BREAKING: Italian Air Force Test Pilot Perishes In Mishap At Terracina Air Show ? Avgeekery.com ? News and stories by Aviation Professionals
On Sunday September 24th 2017, 36 year-old Aeronautica Militare Italiana (AMI- Italian Air Force) Captain and test pilot Gabriele Orlandi was flying a demonstration routine in a Eurofighter F-2000A Typhoon fighter while participating in the Terracina Airshow located about 30 miles southeast of Rome on the Italian west coast. The pilot was reportedly flying F-2000A serial number MM7278 / AMI code RS-23 and assigned to the AMI’s Reparto Sperimentale Volo (RSV or Test Wing).
Orlandi’s demonstration flight appeared to spectators to be entirely routine until the jet reached the bottom of an elongated loop maneuver and was unable to recover from its dive at the bottom of the maneuver. As a result, the Typhoon crashed into the sea and disintegrated approximately 400 yards offshore at 1700 local time. The pilot was killed on impact, failing to even attempt to eject from the aircraft prior to making catastrophic contact with the water. The pilot’s body was recovered at sea 90 minutes after the mishap.
The show’s next and final scheduled performance, by Italy’s Frecce Tricolore precision flight demonstration team, was canceled. No cause has yet been determined for the crash, which now is under investigation.........
BREAKING: Italian Air Force Test Pilot Perishes In Mishap At Terracina Air Show ? Avgeekery.com ? News and stories by Aviation Professionals
On Sunday September 24th 2017, 36 year-old Aeronautica Militare Italiana (AMI- Italian Air Force) Captain and test pilot Gabriele Orlandi was flying a demonstration routine in a Eurofighter F-2000A Typhoon fighter while participating in the Terracina Airshow located about 30 miles southeast of Rome on the Italian west coast. The pilot was reportedly flying F-2000A serial number MM7278 / AMI code RS-23 and assigned to the AMI’s Reparto Sperimentale Volo (RSV or Test Wing).
Orlandi’s demonstration flight appeared to spectators to be entirely routine until the jet reached the bottom of an elongated loop maneuver and was unable to recover from its dive at the bottom of the maneuver. As a result, the Typhoon crashed into the sea and disintegrated approximately 400 yards offshore at 1700 local time. The pilot was killed on impact, failing to even attempt to eject from the aircraft prior to making catastrophic contact with the water. The pilot’s body was recovered at sea 90 minutes after the mishap.
The show’s next and final scheduled performance, by Italy’s Frecce Tricolore precision flight demonstration team, was canceled. No cause has yet been determined for the crash, which now is under investigation.........
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Tragic Eurofighter crash as pilot attempts loop in front of parents and girlfriend
Eurofighter pilot attempting loop-the-loop in front of his parents and girlfriend dies after crashing into sea - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/AYuaHNzgRRR2BBL-9kvT_uw
Very sad
https://apple.news/AYuaHNzgRRR2BBL-9kvT_uw
Very sad
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, more condolences here: