Iraq and Syria Operational Service Medal
Thread Starter
Iraq and Syria Operational Service Medal
Announced by the Secretary of State in Iraq today:
Op SHADER Medal
Good news for aircrew but the criteria exclude all those outside Iraq and Syria, e.g. Reaper crews, CAOC staff and the engineers (and others) thrashing themselves year-in, year-out to keep the fight going. From SofS's words it sounds as if some kind of further review into medallic recognition is under way, and damn right. The WW2 Defence Medal could be awarded for spending 1 year overseas in a no-threat environment, and if that was good enough in the 1940s, then there simply has to be a way of recognising those who have already spent 18 months or more deployed on SHADER. Far from protecting some notional 'historical' threshold for medallic recognition, I fear that all the talk of 'risk and rigour' in recent years has simply raised the bar further and further... and we can't even award an ACSM if there is no medal-earning service to start with. If we can't award a GSM08 to those in Cyprus and the Gulf (which would be an acceptable compromise, in my view) then there really should be some kind of lower-level award, counting toward an ACSM, that allows recognition of the severe and ongoing personal sacrifices some people are making for this campaign.
Edit to add: CAS tweeting along same lines
Op SHADER Medal
Good news for aircrew but the criteria exclude all those outside Iraq and Syria, e.g. Reaper crews, CAOC staff and the engineers (and others) thrashing themselves year-in, year-out to keep the fight going. From SofS's words it sounds as if some kind of further review into medallic recognition is under way, and damn right. The WW2 Defence Medal could be awarded for spending 1 year overseas in a no-threat environment, and if that was good enough in the 1940s, then there simply has to be a way of recognising those who have already spent 18 months or more deployed on SHADER. Far from protecting some notional 'historical' threshold for medallic recognition, I fear that all the talk of 'risk and rigour' in recent years has simply raised the bar further and further... and we can't even award an ACSM if there is no medal-earning service to start with. If we can't award a GSM08 to those in Cyprus and the Gulf (which would be an acceptable compromise, in my view) then there really should be some kind of lower-level award, counting toward an ACSM, that allows recognition of the severe and ongoing personal sacrifices some people are making for this campaign.
Edit to add: CAS tweeting along same lines
Last edited by Easy Street; 19th Sep 2017 at 22:29. Reason: Another source...
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ES,
I am inclined to disagree, the roles you mention are neither arduous nor hazardous, it would be wrong to hand out medals simply for carrying out your role away from home. As an example, should a sailor receive a medal for deploying aboard a ship for nine months, I would argue that being aboard a pussers grey or submarine with (until recently) little in the way of home comms is more arduous than the CAOC, Cyprus or Vegas. I agree recognition should be given where due, but not in the form of a medal, maybe a certificate would suffice.
I am inclined to disagree, the roles you mention are neither arduous nor hazardous, it would be wrong to hand out medals simply for carrying out your role away from home. As an example, should a sailor receive a medal for deploying aboard a ship for nine months, I would argue that being aboard a pussers grey or submarine with (until recently) little in the way of home comms is more arduous than the CAOC, Cyprus or Vegas. I agree recognition should be given where due, but not in the form of a medal, maybe a certificate would suffice.
I refer my esteemed colleague to the thread below for some rather emotional replies to that aspect of it...
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...pas-gongs.html
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...pas-gongs.html
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Haha, 101 I think a blend a little emotion and factual evidence 
. Do they call that emotional intelligence..??
Good starting paragraph I thought by easystreet.
Ruined by the second input obviously by someone with absolutely no knowledge of the roles ES talks about. Certainly the first one anyway.
As if where people live accurately describes the arduous nature of the work and task they do. Those guys in Vegas must be hitting the strip every night and day rather than doing more operational flying than anyone else (by a long long way) in the uk military.
As a comparison I believe there was a story recently stating how 50% of the usafs entire operational flying output is done by rpas.
Definitely not deserving IMO...
Sorry techie, you knew I would..
. Do they call that emotional intelligence..??Good starting paragraph I thought by easystreet.
Ruined by the second input obviously by someone with absolutely no knowledge of the roles ES talks about. Certainly the first one anyway.
As if where people live accurately describes the arduous nature of the work and task they do. Those guys in Vegas must be hitting the strip every night and day rather than doing more operational flying than anyone else (by a long long way) in the uk military.
As a comparison I believe there was a story recently stating how 50% of the usafs entire operational flying output is done by rpas.
Definitely not deserving IMO...
Sorry techie, you knew I would..
The more immediate issue should be decoupling the need for an 'op tick' for officers promotions so we can get HQ's back to a manageable level.
During Op Herrick, in theatre HQ's were overrun with SO2's, the good ones of whom were happily doing the job of a Cpl, and the bad ones dreaming up work to get their name on the minutes.
Before it starts - yes, some were doing a great job in HQ's and some were there to keep pace, rankwise, with other nations. Many were there because it became a de facto staff college module.
During Op Herrick, in theatre HQ's were overrun with SO2's, the good ones of whom were happily doing the job of a Cpl, and the bad ones dreaming up work to get their name on the minutes.
Before it starts - yes, some were doing a great job in HQ's and some were there to keep pace, rankwise, with other nations. Many were there because it became a de facto staff college module.
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It is a complete clusterf*** as predicted and the so-called leadership has taken the easy geographic option without applying any initiative or brains.
I hope the Drone fleet vote with their feet along with others who have spent many, many months in unpleasant conditions, all over the place, doing jobs to support the fight.
The higher echelons of the 3 services should be ashamed of themselves.
I hope the Drone fleet vote with their feet along with others who have spent many, many months in unpleasant conditions, all over the place, doing jobs to support the fight.
The higher echelons of the 3 services should be ashamed of themselves.
Last edited by gijoe; 20th Sep 2017 at 08:12.
Thread Starter
gijoe, I think you're being unfair on the RAF leadership. The reason it has taken so long for this medal to be announced is that they have been fighting hard to get Reaper, Cyprus and the Gulf included. There has certainly been initiative in keeping the argument going; the fact that they have lost to the Army is less positive on the brains aspect but I don't think you can fault them for trying. All of the stories I have seen this morning (including the discussion between AM Greg Bagwell and Col Richard Kemp on the Today programme) have been focussing heavily on the need to expand the boundaries of medallic recognition to reflect the nature of modern warfare. Give him his due, Kemp actually sounded like he agreed with the need to do so.
upsdaisy, even the Army do not try to argue that conditions for Reaper crews and aircraft engineers in Cyprus are not 'arduous'. My understanding is that psychological issues and intense working routines (for the former) and the demands of 12-hour shifts for months at a time away from families (for the latter) have been recognised as meeting the 'rigour' criterion for award of an OSM. The argument came down solely to risk. And as I pointed out in my OP, campaign medals have been awarded to recognise arduous service in comparatively low-risk settings before: the WW2 Defence Medal (via the 1-year criterion) being one, the Afghanistan OSM (to those serving in Oman and other such areas) being another.
Having myself done medal-earning time alongside many Army officers in an HQ in Afghanistan, sleeping in well-protected accommodation, getting 3 hot meals a day (on proper plates!) and chatting to family members over Wifi while sipping a fresh coffee, I think it ill behoves the Army senior leadership to be so defensive over OSM and/or GSM08 criteria for Op SHADER. I don't think we have heard the last of this debate...
upsdaisy, even the Army do not try to argue that conditions for Reaper crews and aircraft engineers in Cyprus are not 'arduous'. My understanding is that psychological issues and intense working routines (for the former) and the demands of 12-hour shifts for months at a time away from families (for the latter) have been recognised as meeting the 'rigour' criterion for award of an OSM. The argument came down solely to risk. And as I pointed out in my OP, campaign medals have been awarded to recognise arduous service in comparatively low-risk settings before: the WW2 Defence Medal (via the 1-year criterion) being one, the Afghanistan OSM (to those serving in Oman and other such areas) being another.
Having myself done medal-earning time alongside many Army officers in an HQ in Afghanistan, sleeping in well-protected accommodation, getting 3 hot meals a day (on proper plates!) and chatting to family members over Wifi while sipping a fresh coffee, I think it ill behoves the Army senior leadership to be so defensive over OSM and/or GSM08 criteria for Op SHADER. I don't think we have heard the last of this debate...
Last edited by Easy Street; 20th Sep 2017 at 08:44.
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Easy,
Point taken - but I wasn't pointing fingers at the RAF. I feel very sorry for the bomb-loaders who will now have to attend a medal ceremony at Marham or Coningsby - but their support and vital actions won't be recognized. Nor will the vital training tasks being done in other places. And there are plenty of other bits.
I asked SofS on a visit how Shader was going to be recognized given that the nature of warfare had changed. I was told to shut my face by the former CJO. 'We've got it.' Evidently not.
Risk and Rigour - well I wasn't allowed out of where I was due to risk and nearly got shot by an UK serviceman having an ND. Thanks! It was very rigourous...
That is why the leaders of the 3 services should be embarrassed...I hope it is not over because there is a whole raft of juniors outside of the bubble who will now be questioning what this 'ops' thing all about. The appropriate solution was staring them in the face - OSM inside the JOA, GSM 08 outside.
It is derisive and divisive in the least.
Point taken - but I wasn't pointing fingers at the RAF. I feel very sorry for the bomb-loaders who will now have to attend a medal ceremony at Marham or Coningsby - but their support and vital actions won't be recognized. Nor will the vital training tasks being done in other places. And there are plenty of other bits.
I asked SofS on a visit how Shader was going to be recognized given that the nature of warfare had changed. I was told to shut my face by the former CJO. 'We've got it.' Evidently not.
Risk and Rigour - well I wasn't allowed out of where I was due to risk and nearly got shot by an UK serviceman having an ND. Thanks! It was very rigourous...
That is why the leaders of the 3 services should be embarrassed...I hope it is not over because there is a whole raft of juniors outside of the bubble who will now be questioning what this 'ops' thing all about. The appropriate solution was staring them in the face - OSM inside the JOA, GSM 08 outside.
It is derisive and divisive in the least.
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@ES
I agree with your analysis, but the gap it points to in our decorations system is the lack of an equivalent to the US Combat Infantryman's Badge. The grunts make up a minority of any force package, but usually bear the brunt of the casualties.
The Defence Medal was not strictly a campaign medal. It had a sliding scale of criteria for qualification depending on the perceived risk. As an aside, my father qualified for his by taking part in the raids at Bruneval, Dieppe and Lofoten - service that did not qualify for anything else.
EG
Having myself done medal-earning time alongside many Army officers in an HQ in Afghanistan, sleeping in well-protected accommodation, getting 3 hot meals a day (on proper plates!) and chatting to family members over Wifi while sipping a fresh coffee
And as I pointed out in my OP, campaign medals have been awarded to recognise arduous service in comparatively low-risk settings before: the WW2 Defence Medal (via the 1-year criterion) being one
EG
Thread Starter
With regard to criteria, risk was not the only factor affecting the time to earn the Defence Medal. The quickest way to earn it was to spend 6 months deployed to an 'at risk' area. The next quickest way was to spend 1 year deployed to a 'not at risk' area. The slowest way was to spend 3 years on active duty in your home theatre, even if that was considered to be 'at risk'. Clearly, there was recognition that time spent away was worthy of recognition, even if there was less risk involved than staying at home.
With further respect for your father's endeavours!
I've just looked up the qualifications for the Defence Medal in British Battles and Medals by Major Gordon, still regarded as "the bible" for campaign medals. Gordon lists 14 different ways to qualify for the medal, including those already mentioned by Easy Street - no wonder some people got confused by it. I suspect that qualification requirements for this new Op Shader medal will be amended in due course.
gijoe your father would certainly have been entitled to the War Medal 1939-45 as well as the Defence Medal, but if you meant that there was no campaign star awarded for those operations then you are of course correct.
gijoe your father would certainly have been entitled to the War Medal 1939-45 as well as the Defence Medal, but if you meant that there was no campaign star awarded for those operations then you are of course correct.
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ES,
I am inclined to disagree, the roles you mention are neither arduous nor hazardous, it would be wrong to hand out medals simply for carrying out your role away from home. As an example, should a sailor receive a medal for deploying aboard a ship for nine months, I would argue that being aboard a pussers grey or submarine with (until recently) little in the way of home comms is more arduous than the CAOC, Cyprus or Vegas. I agree recognition should be given where due, but not in the form of a medal, maybe a certificate would suffice.
I am inclined to disagree, the roles you mention are neither arduous nor hazardous, it would be wrong to hand out medals simply for carrying out your role away from home. As an example, should a sailor receive a medal for deploying aboard a ship for nine months, I would argue that being aboard a pussers grey or submarine with (until recently) little in the way of home comms is more arduous than the CAOC, Cyprus or Vegas. I agree recognition should be given where due, but not in the form of a medal, maybe a certificate would suffice.
Neither arduous nor hazardous?... Are you aware how much time some guys are spending away from home and how often? Its now a case of OOA, come home for a few months then back OOA again. There's guys who have spent over 365 days on Shader alone.
There's guys on girls on Shader who are routinely doing 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week. Every week, for months.
The accommodation is so unfit for purpose it's officially classed as field conditions.
So it's inaccurate to say it's not arduous work and comparable to a post back home.
I can think of MBEs and OBEs that have been handed out for less.
It's nice to be appreciated. Appreciation is what stops us hemorrhaging suitably qualified and experienced personnel for higher paid civvy jobs with a better work-life balance.
He did get seven medals though!
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TTN,
I think that is meant for me. You are correct, while Bruneval and Lofoten were fairly straightforward, Dieppe was anything but and it is sobering to reflect on the recognition received.
I would agree that the whole system is probably due for a root and branch review, one that distinguishes: gallantry, physical danger/hardship and operational contribution.
Separately, IMHO we need to look at the current 'classless' system as it seems to have resulted in too many officers getting awards for doing their job. Personally, I think officers' awards should be much harder to get than ORs' awards.
EG
your father would certainly have been entitled to the War Medal 1939-45 as well as the Defence Medal, but if you meant that there was no campaign star awarded for those operations then you are of course correct.
I would agree that the whole system is probably due for a root and branch review, one that distinguishes: gallantry, physical danger/hardship and operational contribution.
Separately, IMHO we need to look at the current 'classless' system as it seems to have resulted in too many officers getting awards for doing their job. Personally, I think officers' awards should be much harder to get than ORs' awards.
EG
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'gijoe your father would certainly have been entitled to the War Medal 1939-45 as well as the Defence Medal, but if you meant that there was no campaign star awarded for those operations then you are of course correct.'
No my Pa - GrandPa was there though. Much Kudos to the man in question.
No my Pa - GrandPa was there though. Much Kudos to the man in question.
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'It's nice to be appreciated. Appreciation is what stops us hemorrhaging suitably qualified and experienced personnel for higher paid civvy jobs with a better work-life balance.
Neither arduous nor hazardous?... Are you aware how much time some guys are spending away from home and how often? Its now a case of OOA, come home for a few months then back OOA again. There's guys who have spent over 365 days on Shader alone.
There's guys on girls on Shader who are routinely doing 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week. Every week, for months.
The accommodation is so unfit for purpose it's officially classed as field conditions.
So it's inaccurate to say it's not arduous work and comparable to a post back home.'
...and this is the crux of the issue. Juniors are going to question why going on OOA/Ops when they can leave, get a 'job' - which the Services are very rapidly morphing into - and not have half the hassle.
I can think of MBEs and OBEs that have been handed out for less.'
And this is absolutely true. Visits officer in HQ SHAPE is my best nomination for non-honour-deserving-awarded-honour.
Neither arduous nor hazardous?... Are you aware how much time some guys are spending away from home and how often? Its now a case of OOA, come home for a few months then back OOA again. There's guys who have spent over 365 days on Shader alone.
There's guys on girls on Shader who are routinely doing 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week. Every week, for months.
The accommodation is so unfit for purpose it's officially classed as field conditions.
So it's inaccurate to say it's not arduous work and comparable to a post back home.'
...and this is the crux of the issue. Juniors are going to question why going on OOA/Ops when they can leave, get a 'job' - which the Services are very rapidly morphing into - and not have half the hassle.
I can think of MBEs and OBEs that have been handed out for less.'
And this is absolutely true. Visits officer in HQ SHAPE is my best nomination for non-honour-deserving-awarded-honour.
In 1982 I spent 5 months on ASI doing 12 hour shifts. Arduous? Yes, risky? No, but I ended up with a SAM minus rosette, not that much different to the guys in Cyprus. Why not a Shader medal with or without a rosette depending on risk factor?