RAF Poseidon - Not too long to wait?
Originally Posted by sandiego89
Sorry if already mentioned, but it sounds like the P-8's radar could be quite handy for overland tracking, if say you find your MPA operating over some sandbox for example, never happen would it? 
Like a mini- JSTARS. "It is said the sensor is so sensitive that it can even pick up a formation of people moving over open terrain," Tyler Rogoway in 2014 wrote about the APS-149. "Also, the speed of the system's double-sided [electronically-scanned] array allows for multi-mode operations at one time with near-360-degree coverage, meaning that scanning, mapping, tracking and classifying targets can all happen near simultaneously, resulting in massive amounts of data for multiple platforms and decision makers around the theater and beyond to exploit"
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...-targets-51537
Like a mini- JSTARS. "It is said the sensor is so sensitive that it can even pick up a formation of people moving over open terrain," Tyler Rogoway in 2014 wrote about the APS-149. "Also, the speed of the system's double-sided [electronically-scanned] array allows for multi-mode operations at one time with near-360-degree coverage, meaning that scanning, mapping, tracking and classifying targets can all happen near simultaneously, resulting in massive amounts of data for multiple platforms and decision makers around the theater and beyond to exploit"
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...-targets-51537
RAF targets April 2020 for maritime patrol resumption
A very speedy introduction into service for Poseidon plus news on the E-7. Article on Flight Global.
The UK Royal Air Force (RAF) is on track to restore its lapsed maritime patrol aircraft capability within the next nine months, according to Air Commodore Rich Barrow, senior responsible owner for the service’s Boeing P-8 and E-7 acquisitions.
Speaking at the Royal International Air Tattoo on 19 July, one week after the RAF's first P-8A Poseidon airframe had made its flight debut, Barrow said: "From 1 April next year we are going to have UK maritime patrol capability operating from UK soil for the first time in a number of years."
The UK's first two P-8A Poseidon MRA1 crews have already completed training at the US Navy's (USN's) NAS Jacksonville site in Florida, while other members of its personnel have retained maritime patrol experience via Project Seedcorn placements with the USN and other nations over the past decade.
The UK's first aircraft is now having its mission system equipment installed at Boeing's Tukwila site in Washington, having been transferred from the manufacturer's nearby Renton final assembly facility. After supporting initial training at Jacksonville from later this year, the asset will be flown to RAF Kinloss early in 2020, ahead of being moved to its home base at RAF Lossiemouth, following the completion of runway resurfacing work.
"When we get those aircraft we are going to be using them as soon as we possibly can," Barrow says. Missions will include providing protection for the Royal Navy's continuous at-sea deterrent force of Vanguard-class nuclear attack submarines.
The RAF has lacked a dedicated maritime patrol aircraft capability since 2010, when the last of its BAE Systems Nimrod MR2s were retired.
Meanwhile, the service is also making early preparations for its future use of the E-7 Wedgetail airborne early warning and control system aircraft from RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire. Its 8 Sqn will transition onto the 737-based type from the Boeing E-3D Sentry, with initial operational capability planned for the second half of 2023.
Describing the five-aircraft deal – confirmed earlier this year – as a "really pacey programme", Barrow notes: "We couldn’t hang around – it's not a capability gap you can afford to take."
Barrow says the UK's plan is to "stay in lock-step" with lead Wedgetail operator the Royal Australian Air Force with regard to future updates to the E-7 system. "It's a lot smarter if we work together with them and effectively co-fund stuff going forward," he says.
"The capabilities that we will be able to build onto that platform going forward, and the capabilities that its [Northrop Grumman Mesa active electronically scanned array] radar has inherently in it are absolutely huge," Barrow says.
Speaking at the Royal International Air Tattoo on 19 July, one week after the RAF's first P-8A Poseidon airframe had made its flight debut, Barrow said: "From 1 April next year we are going to have UK maritime patrol capability operating from UK soil for the first time in a number of years."
The UK's first two P-8A Poseidon MRA1 crews have already completed training at the US Navy's (USN's) NAS Jacksonville site in Florida, while other members of its personnel have retained maritime patrol experience via Project Seedcorn placements with the USN and other nations over the past decade.
The UK's first aircraft is now having its mission system equipment installed at Boeing's Tukwila site in Washington, having been transferred from the manufacturer's nearby Renton final assembly facility. After supporting initial training at Jacksonville from later this year, the asset will be flown to RAF Kinloss early in 2020, ahead of being moved to its home base at RAF Lossiemouth, following the completion of runway resurfacing work.
"When we get those aircraft we are going to be using them as soon as we possibly can," Barrow says. Missions will include providing protection for the Royal Navy's continuous at-sea deterrent force of Vanguard-class nuclear attack submarines.
The RAF has lacked a dedicated maritime patrol aircraft capability since 2010, when the last of its BAE Systems Nimrod MR2s were retired.
Meanwhile, the service is also making early preparations for its future use of the E-7 Wedgetail airborne early warning and control system aircraft from RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire. Its 8 Sqn will transition onto the 737-based type from the Boeing E-3D Sentry, with initial operational capability planned for the second half of 2023.
Describing the five-aircraft deal – confirmed earlier this year – as a "really pacey programme", Barrow notes: "We couldn’t hang around – it's not a capability gap you can afford to take."
Barrow says the UK's plan is to "stay in lock-step" with lead Wedgetail operator the Royal Australian Air Force with regard to future updates to the E-7 system. "It's a lot smarter if we work together with them and effectively co-fund stuff going forward," he says.
"The capabilities that we will be able to build onto that platform going forward, and the capabilities that its [Northrop Grumman Mesa active electronically scanned array] radar has inherently in it are absolutely huge," Barrow says.
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09
Opportunities on the ground for rejoiners as well per AOC 1 Gp:
https://twitter.com/AOC_1_Group/stat...78123028242433
https://twitter.com/AOC_1_Group/stat...78123028242433
A Boeing Code Leak Exposes Security Flaws Deep in a 787's Guts
Originally Posted by Lyneham Lad
Barrow says the UK's plan is to "stay in lock-step" with lead Wedgetail operator the Royal Australian Air Force with regard to future updates to the E-7 system. "It's a lot smarter if we work together with them and effectively co-fund stuff going forward," he says.
Oh god please dont, our RAAF does an OK job of not screwing up procurement to badly. Last thing we need is the RAF whiteanting in their ear with their track record of screwups.
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Originally Posted by Not Long Here
The standard radar for the P-8A is the APY-10 which has been derived from the long family of airborne maritime radars fitted to the P-3. The APS-149 is an externally fitted sensor in a "canoe" beneath the aircraft and is not fitted on a day to day basis.
Originally Posted by sandiego89
Thank you for the clarification Not Long here. Sounds like the APS-149 would be a handy extra to have.
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"
- the manual trim wheels were reduced in size from Classic to NG, making them harder to turn (less mechanical advantage)
- the trimmable horizontal stabiliser size was increased from Classic to NG, but the elevators were not proportionally increased, reducing the relative authority of the elevators; and
- the information about the 'bunt and wind the trim wheel' trim recovery technique disappeared from documentation and training syllabi for the NG
The Classics were properly certificated as safe, by the standards of the day"
from
MAX’s Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures
the questions no one dares consider is just what is the lineage of the Poseidon and what changes have been made to produce it considering the ongoing cf the 737 is turning into..
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What are you on about? Why are you insistent on comparing the P-8 to the MAX? A little research shows that the trim system is completely different.
I’m failing to see your point. It doesn’t have MCAS. Not even close.
The aircraft has a 737-800 body with -900-like wings. The stabiliser trim system is commensurate with the CG and trimming requirements.
I’m failing to see your point. It doesn’t have MCAS. Not even close.
The aircraft has a 737-800 body with -900-like wings. The stabiliser trim system is commensurate with the CG and trimming requirements.
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Originally Posted by betty swallox
What are you on about? Why are you insistent on comparing the P-8 to the MAX? A little research shows that the trim system is completely different.
I’m failing to see your point. It doesn’t have MCAS. Not even close.
The aircraft has a 737-800 body with -900-like wings.
The stabiliser trim system is commensurate with the CG and trimming requirements.
I’m failing to see your point. It doesn’t have MCAS. Not even close.
The aircraft has a 737-800 body with -900-like wings.
The stabiliser trim system is commensurate with the CG and trimming requirements.
Below is a link to the STATS for 737 series.
The differences are clear. Especially the size of the horiz stab compared to the elevator.
What is less so is when the series outgrew the capacity of the manual trim to regain control even using the "yo-yo/unload" technique.
I find it interesting [but not surprising] that there is no information available for the military versions what with their structural changes and various augmentations.
Oh, and I believe mcas is used on the frankentanker, albeit with dual aoa inputs.
So who knows what else Boeing have incorporated. Or not.
Boeing 737 Detailed Technical Data
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Surely because the P-8's are all new builds from scratch at the factory, won't Boeing be fitting them all with the 'Latest and greatest tech' ?
Last edited by The...Bird; 25th Aug 2019 at 12:36.
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Mate, are you suggesting that the P-8A may have MCAS fitted but the USN (and consequently the RAF) have not been informed? Apologies if that’s not the case, but that’s how I read the intimation in your post.
Duncan
Duncan
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Originally Posted by The...Bird
Surely because the P-8's are all new builds from scratch at the factory, won't Boeing be fitting them all with the 'Latest and greatest tech' ?
Lesson 1 at Test Pilot School ;"Do not believe what a manufacture tells you about their product.. You have to prove it.."
or as `Uncle Roger ` would say `Too much time with Rollo Freelunch`.......
or as `Uncle Roger ` would say `Too much time with Rollo Freelunch`.......
P8's don't have MCAS. MCAS was fitted to compensate the larger engine fitment position on the 737MAX which was developed to compete with that A320Neo.
P8 = 738.
P8 = 738.
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Originally Posted by Stiff Under Carriage
P8's don't have MCAS. MCAS was fitted to compensate the larger engine fitment position on the 737MAX which was developed to compete with that A320Neo.
P8 = 738.
P8 = 738.
It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the final reports into the MAX acidents, but despite all that I doubt it will affect P8 much - if only because the NG has not been subject to airworthiness action yet, and even if it were to be in future, the so-called "roller coaster" recovery from a mis-trimmed condition could be added back to the flight manual of a MPA without controversy (maybe not true for an airliner!)
Last edited by Easy Street; 26th Aug 2019 at 16:22.
RAF Rejoiners Event For P-8A
"Our next Rejoiners Event is Wednesday 9th October 2019 at @RAFLossiemouth! We are seeking ex-military personnel for P8 Poseidon mission crew opportunities. See the advert below for details. #NoOrdinaryJob #RAFRejoiners "
Reds posing in front of our first P-8
Originally Posted by oxenos
Is there an age limit? (Oxenos, aged 76 3/4, but with lots of maritime and 737 hours)
https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/m...eidon_crew.pdf
57 apparently.
Why would a bunch of people who generally fly in formation take an interest in a grey maritime aircraft? Is there a plan afoot to recreate the Grey Ladies (now, sadly, a closed thread)?
If it meant increasing the order to 24, I would be all in favour. Of course that lot would have to bin the gaudy flying suits and wear proper grey ones. With D'Artagnon boots
