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UK - More defence cuts

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UK - More defence cuts

Old 10th Feb 2018, 18:07
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Seriously......how the hell do they do it? All we seem to do is slash and burn. Is their procurement system better managed than ours.....everything we do seems to spiral out of control.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 11:26
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Simple, they do not buy everyone else's crap, the French buy and operate French aircraft.

Which is what I said earlier, start buying the likes of US aircraft at the detriment to you're home built product and your industry must shrink as orders dry up and you lose the technology battle...

Happened Civi wise with the UK airlines buying 707 and the Governments misshanding over the Tridents technical data by gifting it to Boeing thus solving Boeings intake issues and allowing the 727 to flood the markets.


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Last edited by NutLoose; 11th Feb 2018 at 11:39.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 11:56
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Simple, they do not buy everyone else's crap, the French buy and operate French aircraft.

Which is what I said earlier, start buying the likes of US aircraft at the detriment to you're home built product and your industry must shrink as orders dry up and you lose the technology battle...

Happened Civi wise with the UK airlines buying 707 and the Governments misshanding over the Tridents technical data by gifting it to Boeing thus solving Boeings intake issues and allowing the 727 to flood the markets.
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Well said Sir. Could not have put it any better. Will anyone listen NOT A CHANCE...
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 11:57
  #184 (permalink)  
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Hmm I always thought it was sizing the Trident to BEA's spec rather than the rather larger one they were originally planning.........................

That was always an issue - UK manufacturers needed UK orders to get the ball rolling but then they had to fit in with what BOAC & BEA wanted - and as ever they detailed the spec to try and fit their needs exactly..................
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:29
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Company decreed that there would be a technology sharing between the UK and US, the UK had solved the problems with the S duct intake for the centre engine and this was part of the technical information taken over to the US and presented to Boeing by HS, when Boeing came over to do the likewise sharing they basically didn't. Thus Boeing was able to take the gifted information and solve the problems with the 727 design and take the mid market.

Size did come into it as well, and some of the BOAC BEA sizes were madness, one was written based on the seating capacity of their bus fleet, so the aircraft was built to that, rather than the cheaper and more efficient way of altering the buses or running two.


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Last edited by NutLoose; 11th Feb 2018 at 12:52.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:42
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile, a new prospective rival airliner emerged, this time from Boeing in the United States, in the form of the Boeing 727, which also had a tri-jet configuration.[20] Boeing had begun its studies into this sector of the market in 1956, and elected to launch its own tri-jet programme in 1959. Airco executives, who were at the time intensely exploring various alternatives and further partnerships with other aircraft companies, considered the possibility that Boeing might choose to drop the 727 project and instead co-manufacture the Airco D.H.121 in the USA; Lord Douglas was one of the proponents of this initiative.[20] As a result, Airco invited a team of Boeing engineers and executives to Hatfield; (Boeing later permitted a return visit by de Havilland representatives to Seattle); however, Boeing revealed few details of their plans for the 727, while virtually all information on the D.H.121 had been shared with Boeing, an openness that had allegedly "amazed" Boeing.[20] British commentators have tended to interpret this episode as involving the acquisition of sensitive proprietary data on the D.H.121 by a direct competitor.[21] Woods described the action as "de Havilland solemnly handed all its research over to its rivals...the crowning piece of stupidity".[20]
From

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Trident
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 18:34
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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So jet engines, World Wide Web ... I’m sure there are other areas where UK plc has basically shot itself in the foot. I wonder where we’d be if we took a slightly more hard headed line with these things
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 07:29
  #188 (permalink)  
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as a nation we try and avoid confrontation, we prefer to aimfor the middle of any argument etc etc

So we're not the world's best at negotiating tough deals and we put off taking tough decisions as long as possible.....................
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 17:17
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Melchett01
So jet engines, World Wide Web ... I’m sure there are other areas where UK plc has basically shot itself in the foot. I wonder where we’d be if we took a slightly more hard headed line with these things
Gifting the Nene to the Soviets has to be the shining example, even if it happened longer ago - back then we had enough bullets to shoot not only our own feet but those of our allies as well!
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 19:50
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Originally Posted by TorqueOfTheDevil
Gifting the Nene to the Soviets has to be the shining example, even if it happened longer ago - back then we had enough bullets to shoot not only our own feet but those of our allies as well!
Wonder if graphene will be the next thing we fail to capitalise on?
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 15:07
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Wonder if graphene will be the next thing we fail to capitalise on?
The Americans will have already claimed the Intellectual Property Rights, the Chinese will have copied it and produced it cheaper and the Russians will be dealing it on the black market.....
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 15:51
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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Gifting the Nene to the Soviets has to be the shining example, even if it happened longer ago - back then we had enough bullets to shoot not only our own feet but those of our allies as well!
That and inviting the Russians to tour RR, they had specially made shoes on with super soft sticky soles which enabled them to collect samples of the exotic metal swarf RR was using in their production processes.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 08:30
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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I do frankly think that the political leanings and the national loyalties of that group of politicians and also those of Healy & Wilson have to be questioned with hindsight...........

stories like this, the TSR2/F111 debacle and the withdrawal from East of Suez just back up some of my thoughts.

Arc
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 17:53
  #194 (permalink)  
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What about Sandys & Cameron... they did more real damage
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 18:00
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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The one defining moment in Cameron's time was on the TV series when he stood on the carrier and thanked the Carrier and Harrier guys for doing such a superb job and praising them while knowing that they were both being ditched... Totally lost any remaining respect I had for him at that point
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 18:20
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TorqueOfTheDevil
Gifting the Nene to the Soviets has to be the shining example, even if it happened longer ago - back then we had enough bullets to shoot not only our own feet but those of our allies as well!
Before that we sent the Whittle W.1 engine to the USA for General Electric to make their own version.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 19:31
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
The one defining moment in Cameron's time was on the TV series when he stood on the carrier and thanked the Carrier and Harrier guys for doing such a superb job and praising them while knowing that they were both being ditched... Totally lost any remaining respect I had for him at that point
Well, bearing in mind that the decision to bin Harrier vice Tornado was a last minute call, I’d have to suggest that he did not know what that Harrier was going whilst on the deck...
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 20:00
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pure Pursuit
Well, bearing in mind that the decision to bin Harrier vice Tornado was a last minute call, I’d have to suggest that he did not know what that Harrier was going whilst on the deck...
With 4 months to go before he announced it I'm sure he would have known it was on the cards! History will judge him on how the country shapes up post Brexit but for now he is looking like one of if not the worst post war PM.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 07:16
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Nutloose,

Have you ever been in a command role? If so, you would know exactly why he praised those boys and girls - because they deserved praising and he was the right man to do it!

The decision on whether Harrier or Tornado was to be hit by the cuts never had anything to do with doubts over the dedication or professionalism of the people serving on either fleet.

For Pete’s sake, what did you expect Cameron to do? Come on board and tell them they were all sh1t and he was going to can them???????
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 07:33
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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Come on board and tell them they were all sh1t and he was going to can them???????
Seen it done three times! By an Admiral, an Air Vice Marshal and a civilian Director. All completely deranged.
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