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Instructors - any favourite "bon mots" ?

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Instructors - any favourite "bon mots" ?

Old 1st Sep 2017, 22:50
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I suspect this thread could run and run......
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 04:51
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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QFI to me mimicking an ATC call. "

"Fast moving contact in your 6 o'clock, range 5 miles, same heading, same altitude same speed. Might be your brain!
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 05:31
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Five decades ago the following story had currency among we students. Always had doubts over its veracity, until discovering these clips.


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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 11:57
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Another good one from a crew-room many moons ago:

"Bloggs, if your brains were dynamite there wouldn't be enough there to blow your bloody hat off".
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 15:17
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MPN11 (#62),

Totally irrelevant to Thread, but whenever did that stand in the way of a good story ?)
Your:
Not an aircraft incident, but one very foggy night at Strubby I set off in a Mini to turn off the Pundit on the north side of the airfield [I think it was left on for Many night-flying, if they could]. That achieved, it was now both dark and foggy. And, as a Strubby ATCO, it took me bloody ages to find my way back across to the south side.
You are in good company, Sir ! (it can happen to anybody) - Dum-Dum, 1943:
To cut a long story short, I turned off, missed the first (proper) track, which looked small and insignificant, and took the next. When that looped round, heading off the airfield, the penny dropped. I was on a contractor's access road. I stopped, stuck.
There was no room to turn round and the VV had no reverse gear. I shut down and sent (mutinously muttering) "Stew" back on foot to confess. He didn't have far to walk: my absence had been noted. "Where's Danny?" - "He landed behind me", said Number Five, "so he must be on the field somewhere". The Flight truck raced back up the taxiway and found us.

They had to fetch a tractor and towing dolly to haul me out, ignominiously, tail-first back down the track to the flight line. The Boss was not well pleased, time had been lost, the word "idiot" may have been used. Others chuckled that, as a rule, aircraft got lost in the air - not on the ground
!
Danny (ex-ATCO, Strubby)

and

megan (#67) - Marvellous ! D.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 15:42
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A multi engine /crew story from the dim and distant involved a splendid QFI with the name of Taff John. It was a night CT sortie at Colerne in a Hastings that it occurred. The Handley Page Hastings did not conform to Perf A standards and there was a perilous gap between Vr and Flaps up safety speed. In a heavily laden craft the unwritten drill for EFATO was to put the nose down Bannerdown Hill and aim at Bath Abbey until the ASI quivered up to the approved 3 engine speed. In those days a practice EFATO could be initiated by bottling one of the four Bristol Hercules engines without any disastrous effects (a practice continued for a while on the Herc until they realised that the remaining three Allison turbo props at max throttle would take you straight to the scene of the accident!) Anyway that night Taff reached forward at take off and retarded a throttle. There ensued a frenzy of activity whereby the Co misidentified the HP cock of the engine and switched off the adjacent one. The Engineer saw the HP cock off and retarded the appropriate throttle on his own panel and switched off the wrong LP cock . The Captain was now double asymmetric and tried to restart an engine which they all cocked up and the remaining engine spluttered to a halt for want of fuel. The mighty Hastings was then utterly quiet in the night sky apart from the wind blowing over its wings when a dry Welsh voice intoned. "Rrright! Now will everrybody put everrything back where they found it!"
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 16:46
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Pakistani exchange QFI - "Old Bricks, you are trying to kill me....again!"
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 17:08
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Dougie M Thank you so much for retelling that classic story. I heard it at Farnborough c.1970 in Southern Squadron word-for-word and it is great to see it properly recorded in writing after all these years.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 17:56
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QFI to Bloggs (me) briefing a JP 4 aeros trip.
"Barrel rolls are like t1ts, some like 'em big and some like 'em small"
mcdhu
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 21:54
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Robin Olds recounts a similar tale from the days after the war when he served as an exchange pilot on an RAF Meteor squadron (ultimately becoming the first american to command an RAF squadron I believe).

On being instructed by a slightly plummy sounding RAF flying officer regarding the Meteor's controls, he was advised as follows regarding the engine start procedure:

"Now do you see these two things here old chap, well when you want to start an engine you just have to push one of the t!ts...."

Olds was said to be more than comfortable adopting the new abbreviated term for an "engine start push button".
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 23:14
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Anyway that night Taff reached forward at take off and retarded a throttle. There ensued a frenzy of activity whereby the Co misidentified the HP cock of the engine and switched off the adjacent one. The Engineer saw the HP cock off and retarded the appropriate throttle on his own panel and switched off the wrong LP cock . The Captain was now double asymmetric and tried to restart an engine which they all cocked up and the remaining engine spluttered to a halt for want of fuel. The mighty Hastings was then utterly quiet in the night sky
HP and LP cocks in a piston-engined aircraft? I don't think so...

There is no way a Hastings would have remained airborne with so many engines failed / mishandled; I simply don't believe this tale.

Neither would a single engine shut down any time after V1 have been a problem for the C-130.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 11:55
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BEagle (#75),

Well spotted, Sir ! When did a Herc ever have Allison engines ?...

(#70)..."Herc until they realised that the remaining three Allison turbo props" !....

I give you Wikipedia (Specifications):

I should think that our Chugalug will be "up in arms" when he reads of this calumny on the Queen of The Skies !

D.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 12:10
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Originally Posted by Danny42C View Post
When did a Herc ever have Allison engines ?...

(#70)..."Herc until they realised that the remaining three Allison turbo props" !....
Albert has always had Allison engines. Specifically variants of the Allison T56 Turbo-prop. Indeed the T56 was specifically developed for the Herc.

The current C-130J (or 'Super Hercules') has Rolls-Royce AE2100 Turbo-props but these themselves are a derivative of the Allison AE 1107C-Liberty, Allison being now part of Rolls-Royce North America.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 12:11
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Danny 42C

With all due respect, I think you've got your Herc' and Hastings mixed up.

The Herc' K model had Allison engines with IIRC Hamilton props - being a lowly Nav' who left 'The Mob' in '73 I think I'm right.

The Hastings had Hercules engines - Bristol?
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 12:30
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Originally Posted by Dougie M View Post
a practice continued for a while on the Herc until they realised that the remaining three Allison turbo props at max throttle would take you straight to the scene of the accident!
Having an engine shut down on Albert above Vr does not present any issues with handling (since Vr is > Vmca1). The reason that routine engine shutdowns to simulate engine failures (practice assymetric) were banned on Albert was the loss of XV198 at Colerne in Sep 1973 which, while overshooting practice assymetric lost a second engine at 400ft.

During my time on Albert you only ever got to see practice assymetric once during the OCU (Ex 3 IIRC), and that was done straight and level in the cruise.

At all other times assymetric (whether single or double) was simulated assymetric ie the power levers were retarded to set zero torque.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 13:32
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On the V force in the sixties the procedure after an engine fire was to go through the motions for the affected engine and then shut down the adjacent one to cater for debris, fire spread etc.. On practices one would go through the motions for the affected engine and then retard the adjacent and carry out a two-engine approach and landing. The thrust line was sufficiently close to the centreline for you to be able to carry out a two engines on one side overshoot.

Ken Baker was overseeing his co-pilot carrying out this procedure in a Vulcan 2. That's when they found out that the rudder on the 2 couldn't contain the yaw of two Olympus's on one side at full chat.................

Last edited by Fareastdriver; 4th Sep 2017 at 09:37.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 15:09
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ExAscoteer, the practices in earlier years were somewhat more demanding. Whilst on UAS Summer Camp at Thorney Island in 1970, I went for a trip in a C-130. It was an MCT trip and the co-pilot was flying - we'd literally just got airborne when the captain reached up and T-handled the #1 engine....

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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 16:03
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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apologies posted on the wrong forum
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 19:57
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
Les Baker was overseeing his co-pilot carrying out this procedure in a Vulcan 2. That's when they found out that the rudder on the 2 couldn't contain the yaw of two Olympus's on one side at full chat.................
Ken Baker.

At the time of this crash the Vulcan was operated to 104% take-off power, later it was restricted to cruise power which was quite adequate.

I am sure BEagle can retell the proper throttle management for a roller after a simulated engine failure. While it is correct that there was insufficient rudder authority the problem was the live engines had a more rapid response to throttle movement than the two at idle.

I wonder how many fatalities were caused from practising asymmetric than actually occurred for real? How many actual asymmetric incidents were saved from previous practise? I know the later figure is probably too difficult to assess, but in addition to the notorious Meteor and Canberra crashes, the Vulcan one mentioned, I know of a Valetta one, essentially the same as the Hastings one above where the wrong engines were shut down. The Kegworth crash was also mishandling but was an actual emergency.
.
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Old 3rd Sep 2017, 21:38
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TO ALL CONCERNED,

Brian 48nav (#78) is right ! I've got my Hastings and Hercs in a twist ! Put it down to Senile Decay. Apologies for any confusion caused !

Danny.
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