Low Flying Herc at Woodvale
Thread Starter
Low Flying Herc at Woodvale
To the Herc crew that overflew RAF Woodvale this afternoon at approx 1630Z.
You may have a bit of extra paperwork guys. The small fixed wing in the circuit with cloudbase at around 5-600 feet wasn't impressed when you went underneath him.
I believe he's talking to Mil AIS as I write. A simple blind call on the approach freq would have helped.
You may have a bit of extra paperwork guys. The small fixed wing in the circuit with cloudbase at around 5-600 feet wasn't impressed when you went underneath him.
I believe he's talking to Mil AIS as I write. A simple blind call on the approach freq would have helped.
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You will find that Woodvale knew that they were coming as the crew called them by landline before they got airborne and transmitted on both UHF and VHF frequencies from approx 20 miles out whilst making an approach to the airfield from the SW over the sea.
It is an open FIR once the ATZ is closed see and avoid principles apply. There were 2 C-130 ac in the formation, did the light aircraft pilot see both of them or just one? Did he transmit on the Woodvale frequency that he was upset and was going to file an airprox?
We will just have to see what AIS (Mil) make of it all. The C-130s were squawking and wearing Mode C and were approx 250-500 ft msd, was the light aircraft wearing a Mode C, if not it is going to be very difficult to prove how high he was.
WhichWay?
It is an open FIR once the ATZ is closed see and avoid principles apply. There were 2 C-130 ac in the formation, did the light aircraft pilot see both of them or just one? Did he transmit on the Woodvale frequency that he was upset and was going to file an airprox?
We will just have to see what AIS (Mil) make of it all. The C-130s were squawking and wearing Mode C and were approx 250-500 ft msd, was the light aircraft wearing a Mode C, if not it is going to be very difficult to prove how high he was.
WhichWay?
Last edited by WhichWay?; 16th Jul 2002 at 20:11.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA....?
I stand to be corrected, but isn't it the rule that only a MATZ, not an ATZ should be considered inactive outside published hours?
I note that, although Woodvale has ATZ operating hours published as 0800-1800 local, the entry in the BINA ERS also states "Light aircraft activity HJ (sunrise to sunset) ouside of A/D hours". Also that the aerodrome is active "H24 outside published hours for police helicopter activity, up to 1000ft." Further that there is an "A/G Stn 'Aeroclub' on 123.5".....
So anyone approaching Woodvale outside the period 0800-1800 local should expect police helicopter and/or light aircraft activity- it would be fairly sensible to call on 123.5 to confirm whether there was any activity going on at the time, one would have thought?
I note that, although Woodvale has ATZ operating hours published as 0800-1800 local, the entry in the BINA ERS also states "Light aircraft activity HJ (sunrise to sunset) ouside of A/D hours". Also that the aerodrome is active "H24 outside published hours for police helicopter activity, up to 1000ft." Further that there is an "A/G Stn 'Aeroclub' on 123.5".....
So anyone approaching Woodvale outside the period 0800-1800 local should expect police helicopter and/or light aircraft activity- it would be fairly sensible to call on 123.5 to confirm whether there was any activity going on at the time, one would have thought?
Last edited by BEagle; 16th Jul 2002 at 23:04.
Thread Starter
Basset, I'd just landed but it could've been me up there. Do you need a map to fly the circuit? Hmm, I suppose I did during basic training.
Beagle, you're right about the MATZ/ATZ, only Woodvale doesn't have a MATZ
Aircraft operating here out of hours, blindcall on the Approach freq, not the A/G
Which Way, they may well have called 20 miles out, but they didn't appear to be monitoring 121.00, otherwise they would have heard the other aircraft doing his circuit calls, talking to another aircraft passing Woodvale to the West, and then trying to call the Hercules to try and find out his intentions. We only saw and heard the one.
Which Way and Basset. You weren't on board were you?
Beagle, you're right about the MATZ/ATZ, only Woodvale doesn't have a MATZ
Aircraft operating here out of hours, blindcall on the Approach freq, not the A/G
Which Way, they may well have called 20 miles out, but they didn't appear to be monitoring 121.00, otherwise they would have heard the other aircraft doing his circuit calls, talking to another aircraft passing Woodvale to the West, and then trying to call the Hercules to try and find out his intentions. We only saw and heard the one.
Which Way and Basset. You weren't on board were you?
Last edited by MightyGem; 18th Jul 2002 at 02:53.
'Light aircraft activity HJ (sunrise to sunset) ouside of A/D hours'
That would be a good reason to route clear of the aerodrome, I would have thought?
That would be a good reason to route clear of the aerodrome, I would have thought?
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Re: DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA....?
I flew out of Woodvale for 3 years and the locals around the airfield, all of whom moved there long AFTER the airfield was built and active, are a bunch of snivelling gits! Their lawnmowers make more noise than a Tutor. They knew there was an airfield there when they bought their grisly bungalows and if they don't like the noise they can always move again!
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Woodvale
"I flew out of Woodvale for 3 years and the locals around the airfield, all of whom moved there long AFTER the airfield was built and active, are a bunch of snivelling gits! Their lawnmowers make more noise than a Tutor. They knew there was an airfield there when they bought their grisly bungalows and if they don't like the noise they can always move again!"
I've lived next door to the airfield for nearly all my life and have never heard of anyone complaining about the noise. It's not like you fly at all hours is it? or use gas turbine engines. I barely see one light aircraft every day. And almost none at night. Maybe they were upset at the microlight flyers
I've lived next door to the airfield for nearly all my life and have never heard of anyone complaining about the noise. It's not like you fly at all hours is it? or use gas turbine engines. I barely see one light aircraft every day. And almost none at night. Maybe they were upset at the microlight flyers
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Noise at Woodvale
Thank you for your comments. A Civilian. I am glad that you welcome the contribution that military flying makes at Woodvale. You personally wouldn't hear people complaining about the noise because they ring up the CO or the Community Relations officer. I assure you we had many complaints although it is fair to say that it was a lot of complaints, day after day, from the same people. They were also the ones who used to complain about the Southport Airshow which shows you that some people are just born miserable and try to spread it!
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We had complaints from the day we moved in. One couple even declared that they had put their house up for sale because of the noise. Spoke to someone yesterday, who lives in the next street, and they've only heard us a couple of times. Some people just love to complain.
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I am absolutely amazed at the replies to this thread from I suppose are our military cousins. Why can you not see that you MAY be in error? No one has said categorically that the Hercs were in the wrong but the vociferous response is VERY VERY telling. The military should by now be well aware that they share the sky with others and have no more rights than the next. It is a pity that more prosecution are not brought against the very few military cowboys that we all accept exist. However trying to find and prove is of course well nigh impossible since to identify a military aircraft is nearly impossible.
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Workinghard:
I would reply on behalf of my Military bretherin that this could possibly read:
"Civilian pilots should by now be well aware that they share the sky with others and have no more rights than the next"
Afterall, your quote suggests that the Herc had just as much right to be there as you with ATC was shut, maybe they could be filing against you. Just because it may be your home aerodrome gives you no greater right!
CinC
The military should by now be well aware that they share the sky with others and have no more rights than the next. It is a pity that more prosecution are not brought against the very few military cowboys that we all accept exist. However trying to find and prove is of course well nigh impossible since to identify a military aircraft is nearly impossible.
"Civilian pilots should by now be well aware that they share the sky with others and have no more rights than the next"
Afterall, your quote suggests that the Herc had just as much right to be there as you with ATC was shut, maybe they could be filing against you. Just because it may be your home aerodrome gives you no greater right!
CinC
That is what I thought. But the BINA ERS (British Isles and North Atlantic En-Route Supplement) states that the ATZ is active 0800-1800A......
It also clearly states that light aircraft activity takes place out-of-hours between sunrise and sunset - and copper choppers H24. All of which is reason enough not to lumber over in a brace of Hercules at 250' without reasonable consideration for the clearly promulgated aerial activity of others - IF indeed that's what happened.
In the military we need to remember that nowadays we are minority airspace users....
It also clearly states that light aircraft activity takes place out-of-hours between sunrise and sunset - and copper choppers H24. All of which is reason enough not to lumber over in a brace of Hercules at 250' without reasonable consideration for the clearly promulgated aerial activity of others - IF indeed that's what happened.
In the military we need to remember that nowadays we are minority airspace users....
Last edited by BEagle; 21st Jul 2002 at 08:25.
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CinC - Your response shows the typical arrogance to which many on these forums refer. It is a sobering thought that there are , to quote you, "your military bretherin (sic)" who fly their aircraft with the same attitude you present. I hope to God youre resposes are not typical.