Trumps Bars Transgender From Military

[ORAC]

West Coast.

Funding of surgery is not the subject of discussion. It could well be that the report from the DoD would have recommended that it not be funded. The subject is the unilateral announcement by Trump that those who are TG cannot serve - including those who are already successfully doing so.

That is not a decision based on the cost of their service or ability to do so, it is based purely on their being TG.

[West Coast]

The fiscal aspects have been raised, so I would suggest it is a subject of discussion, you yourself has raised the issue by pointing out how little (your opinion) the outlay would be relative to the budget.

So, I ask again, on its own merits, why should the US government fund the treatment and surgery to aid in the transition.

My belief is those serving should be able to stay minus with no money spent towards transitioning, but you've not attempted to explain why I as a taxpayer should foot the bill for cosmetic surgery.

[KenV]

Another interesting factoid on this sad subject.

Sweden as a nation and Swedes as a people have been very accepting of transgenders for quite some time. Yet the suicide rate (which includes successful and unsuccessful suicide attempts) of transgenders in Sweden is just under 800% that of the general population. The rate of successful suicide attempts by transgenders is 2600% of the rate of successful suicide attempts by the general population. Sweden also likely has the longest history of treating transgenders with hormone therapy and surgery. The suicide rate in Sweden of those treated with hormone therapy is essentially the same as those not treated with hormone therapy. However, the suicide rate of those who undergo sexual reassignment surgery is higher relative to those who do not undergo such surgery. In other words, the "cure" is worse than the original problem. So much for "do no harm."

[ORAC]

KenV, please post some links.

I am transgender and familiar with almost all the distorted sites with manipulated data - and haven't felt suicidual since transitioning yet, and it doesn't reflect the feelings of others who have transitioned.... facts on the ground - Just saying...

[ORAC]

White House Solution to Transgender Ban: Let Mattis Decide

[KenV]

Originally Posted by ORAC

KenV, please post some links.

I am transgender .....and haven't felt suicidual since transitioning yet, and it doesn't reflect the feelings of others who have transitioned.... facts on the ground - Just saying...

A high suicide rate does not even remotely suggest transgenders are 100% suicidal. Even with an 800% higher rate, the great majority of transgenders are not suicidal. Most cope just fine. My point about the suicide rates is being transgender is fundamentally different than being gay. This is a mental/emotional disorder with real issues that must be addressed and not ignored. As I said previously, I see no problem in allowing transgenders to serve in the future just as they are serving now IF they are coping with their dysphoria, as most do. And as I said previously, I suspect that those transgenders who are not coping with their dysphoria will self select out of the military. Manning was clearly an exception. That being said, I believe that a transgender in the military who decides to undergo hormone treatment puts him/her self and the service in a real bind. Diabetics can't serve because the nature of the military means their supply of needles, insulin, etc are not sure in a battle environment. The same problem would exist for a transgender undergoing hormone treatment. Or is the solution to allow both transgenders undergoing hormone treatment and diabetics to serve? That sounds awfully risky to me.

Now as for the article you cited, it's clear that it has an agenda when it claims that barring transgenders from the military is "unconstitutional." That right simply does not exist. No one has the right to serve. NO ONE.

[Just This Once...]

I doubt the availability of needles and insulin is factored into our medical standards for recruitment. The health complications associated with diabetes and the confliction with military conditions are the prime factors for rejecting a candidate.

That said, I have flown in AFG and Iraq with diabetics and a transgender navigator. The sky didn't fall in either case.

[recceguy]

Originally Posted by Just This Once...

That said, I have flown in AFG and Iraq with (.) a transgender navigator. .

For a navigator, it's still OK

By the way, President Trump did confirm it yesterday, providing guidelines and legal backing.

[ORAC]

DidJudge blocks Trump’s attempted ban on transgender troops

President Trump’s attempts to ban transgender people from serving in the armed forces has been blocked by a judge.

In a ruling in a federal court, District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly found that Mr Trump’s claims that transgender officers would “cause disruption” in the military had no basis in studies carried out by the military itself. Judge Kollar-Kotelly placed a temporary ban on Mr Trump’s order, which had sought to reverse a decision by Barack Obama that would have allowed openly transgender troops to serve from July this year.

In a surprise move in June, Mr Trump announced an end to the policy on Twitter. “Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail,” he said. The president also barred federal funds from being used to cover the costs of medical treatment associated with gender reassignment surgery of serving troops......

Moving to obstruct the president yesterday Judge Kollar-Kotelly, pointed out that the Department of Defense Working Group, made up of senior uniformed officers and senior civilian officers from each military department, had unanimously concluded that there were no barriers that should prevent transgender individuals from serving in the military. “In short, the military concerns purportedly underlying the president’s decision had been studied and rejected by the military itself,” she said.

The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a separate lawsuit arguing that Mr Trump’s ban amounts to discriminatory treatment. An attorney for the union predicted further legal challenges. “This is the first decision striking down President Trump’s ban, but it won’t be the last,” Joshua Block said in a statement. “The federal courts are recognizing what everyone already knows to be true: President Trump’s impulsive decision to ban transgender people from serving in the military service was blatantly unconstitutional. We will continue to work to ensure that transgender service members are treated with the equal treatment they deserve.”.....

[parabellum]

But I heard on TV earlier today that the part of the order that bans further funds for transgender surgery remains in force. The reporter suggested that there was evidence of people signing up for the minimum period of service in order to get the treatment for free and being non productive on the sick list for a large part of their service. Just the messenger!

[juliet]

It’s a mental health issue and should be treated as such. There is no “right” to serve as plenty of people with disqualifying conditions find out. I feel sorry for these people, they deserve all the help a community can give.

[parabellum]

they deserve all the help a community can give.

Don't think Trump necessarily disagrees with that sentiment, he just doesn't want US tax dollars, allocated to the military, to be used to pay for the surgery, he is requiring that the funds be sought elsewhere, isn't he?

[George K Lee]

It’s a mental health issue and should be treated as such.

Does that mean that depression should be grounds for immediate medical discharge?

[juliet]

Originally Posted by George K Lee

It’s a mental health issue and should be treated as such.

Does that mean that depression should be grounds for immediate medical discharge?

No. A service member should be given the help they need till the point where they need to be medically discharged.

The key point with depression these days, and it’s taken a long time to get here, is that it’s starting to be understood that it can be managed. (I may have this wrong but I believe a member in here, Bob Viking?, has personally dealt with this and has a great insight. Forgive me if I have that wrong!) What is important here is that the depression is acknowledged as an illness and dealt with accordingly, just like a cancer or a broken leg. You go through the process, get the appropriate help, and in many cases you can carry on serving in a safe and productive manner.

The big difference with those with issues around their belief of their gender is that they won’t/can’t acknowledge that they have a mental illness. This as I understand it is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to them dealing with their issue. You can’t help or treat someone if they don’t believe they have a problem.

So, someone in the service, give them help till they have to be medically discharged. Someone trying to join however is quite different. If you have terrible eyesight, only one arm, depression, or are genetically a man but genuinely believe you are a woman then I’m sorry but you can’t join up. It must be hard when you want to serve your country, but realities need to be faced. The role of the Services is not to treat the illnesses of the public.

[ORAC]

Ahhh!! The transgendered, just like those who think they are Gay, can be “cured”........

[juliet]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Ahhh!! The transgendered, just like those who think they are Gay, can be “cured”........

If that was directed towards me then please do not put words in my mouth. Homosexuality is not an illness. Whatever you choose to do with your sexual organs is your business. It is quite different to someone who denies their genetic makeup.

Can it be cured? I hope so for these people’s sake, as I imagine it can be a living hell to deal with for any number of reasons. As I mentioned previously though look at how long it has taken for depression to start to be dealt with properly. We used to think those with depression were just mentally weak or lacking moral fibre. We are still have a long way to go but we generally accept that it is an illness that can be managed. What we need with regard to transgender issues is for people to first of all acknowledge that they have a psychological issue and then stand up and demand help. Very hard to do, as it is with any mental illness, but it is the only way that we can ultimately help these people.

[ORAC]

Thankfully the vast majority of the medical profession disagree with you. As someone who is TG and has gone through the process and researched the subject in depth - been there, done that, got the T-shirt so to speak - I do consider your views on a par with those who both medicated and imprisoned homosexuals on a few decades ago because they considered it, to, a mental illness.

[George K Lee]

The big difference with those with issues around their belief of their gender is that they won’t/can’t acknowledge that they have a mental illness.

You have a mental illness.

-- No, I don't.

See, you're in denial.

[ORAC]

Thankfully the two psychologists and then the three psychiatrists I had to convince before surgery disagreed. But then, they were professionals doing their daytime jobs and not TV celebrities turned politicians or internet instant experts....

[juliet]

The reality is that if a person were to state categorically that they believed that they were an inanimate object, they truly believed it, they would be treated with the respect they deserve and be given help. Believe that every single cell in your body is actually incorrect, that your DNA is incorrect, and society is forced into allowing you to follow the path of mental illness.

I imagine you may not accept it but I truly feel embarrassed that we do not provide you with the mental health support that you need.