Aircrew Armed ?
Danny42C wrote:
My late father served in the Royal Bombay Sapper and Miners. His bearer made him a kukri out of a leaf spring from a written-off Chevrolet(?) 6x6 truck...
The leather case has rotted badly and I've lost the skinning knife and steel, but still have the villainous kukri hidden safely out of sight. I last used it a few years ago when hacking down some ivy; I didn't need to remember the tradition of having to draw blood once the kukri was out of its sheath, as it did that quite happily itself, due to my carelessness!
...the kukri, which I wore on the other hip to balance it.
The leather case has rotted badly and I've lost the skinning knife and steel, but still have the villainous kukri hidden safely out of sight. I last used it a few years ago when hacking down some ivy; I didn't need to remember the tradition of having to draw blood once the kukri was out of its sheath, as it did that quite happily itself, due to my carelessness!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
lsd. Was the original plan to bring it back to UK with your personal effects?
ref the .38. I reckon you would do more damage throwing it at the enemy.
ref the .38. I reckon you would do more damage throwing it at the enemy.
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The .38/200 round has the distinctive characteristic of enabling you to see the black trace as it makes it's leisurely way down-range. Who ever though that was a suitable personal defence weapon?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We drew pistols at Gan, took all that they had. It was a mixed bag of S&W and Colt and may be others.
On the missions where I flew armed, I carried a .45ACP with one mag loaded, one in a flight suit pocket, and one in the survival vest "extra stuff" pouch.
AAC pilots are flying soldiers, with basic infantry training at minimum, and operating in a dedicated aerial role in close proximity to ground troops, so usually fly in kit similar to the ground troops- i.e. DPM, combat boots, side arm, webbing and gat. They would be expected to join the fight on the ground if necessary (as happened in Gan). RAF SH pilots are usually insertion/evacuation, so fly in grow bags usually just with a side-arm for last resort, relying on door/tailgunners and ground support for defence. RN/RM jungly SH pilots fall somewhere between - I've seen them carrying SA80s in the cockpit.
I don't know about FJ pilots. We always suspected they just were sipping their gin and tonics.
It's all a bit role specific, so no definite answer.
I don't know about FJ pilots. We always suspected they just were sipping their gin and tonics.
It's all a bit role specific, so no definite answer.
In Borneo we were issued with a Smith & Wesson with twelve rounds and this was dated 1947 or thereabouts. One pilot shot himself in the foot when his second shot pushed the first one out of the barrel onto his toe.
I found a dodge using rotor blade tape where I could use 9mm. ammunition. Far more accurate and stacks of disposable ammo from the Ghurkhas.
I found a dodge using rotor blade tape where I could use 9mm. ammunition. Far more accurate and stacks of disposable ammo from the Ghurkhas.
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In 2 TAF in the late fifties the only guns I was familiar with were 4x30mm Adens. No thought of personal weapons. Where would you stow one in a Hunter or Swift? Previously at Suez I had contemplated putting one in my growbag pocket but it certainly wouldn't have survived an ejection.
Hi Herod,
Seemed like a reasonable idea when flogging around upcountry but by the time we ended up on base IS patrols I felt any problems would have been sorted by guys a lot better qualified than me (take your choice from Navy, Army or RAF - they were all there aching to get stuck in I thought), so turned my thoughts to getting a fridge or air conditioning unit shipped north but was unsuccessful as the supply wing had got wise towards the end of that debacle....
ah......happy days when common sense was a rare commodity
Seemed like a reasonable idea when flogging around upcountry but by the time we ended up on base IS patrols I felt any problems would have been sorted by guys a lot better qualified than me (take your choice from Navy, Army or RAF - they were all there aching to get stuck in I thought), so turned my thoughts to getting a fridge or air conditioning unit shipped north but was unsuccessful as the supply wing had got wise towards the end of that debacle....
ah......happy days when common sense was a rare commodity
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
When we did the short jungle survival course the PJI had a whole list of toys to add to our kit, condoms, tweezers two name two and to buy a $20 pistol. Not sure if that was USD or Malayan.
I have always thought that giving aircrew anything other than revolvers is a bad idea. A good 3" .38 Special would be my choice, double action only with a concealed hammer. If it absolutely had to be a semi-auto I would go for a traditional DA/SA in Condition 3, with caliber of choice.
Last edited by Fonsini; 25th Jul 2017 at 22:11.
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I liked the idea of a personal firearm but there was a problem. Where to wear or stow it? Depending on choice would you prefer to be uncomfortable by wearing it or risk the thing getting in the way? In the Sioux days in the Middle East there was no problem, but in Northern Ireland when wearing body armour it was a different story in Scouts and later the Gazelle.
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I read that in Aden in the 1950s, No 8 Sqn developed a drop tank for the Venom that could be dropped to downed aircrew. It included a .303 rifle and ammunition.
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Melchett, which returns to my question about ROE.
I wonder if there were many instances in WW 2, if aircrew were armed, or Vietnam, where aircrew used a pistol in E&E.
I imagine at night or in the jungle your chances would have been different whereas in open country shoot one and you have given your position away.
I wonder if there were many instances in WW 2, if aircrew were armed, or Vietnam, where aircrew used a pistol in E&E.
I imagine at night or in the jungle your chances would have been different whereas in open country shoot one and you have given your position away.
Wasn't the original scorpion developed for Warsaw pact pilots to carry?
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I'm sure I've posted this image of my .38/200 barrels somewhere here in the past ...
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
CG, no, Blue Lagoon when the trooper stopped over.
In '64 there were fears that the Indonesians might send their Sverdlov cruiser to harass and invade. A squad of RAF Regt was despatched from Catterick at no notice, they left notes for wives, gone to Far East don't know for how long.
They made a moving sight parading every day, pale blue PT shirts. Navy PT shorts, black socks, boots and putties but no pith helmets, and armed with .303s. A brave sight.
In '64 there were fears that the Indonesians might send their Sverdlov cruiser to harass and invade. A squad of RAF Regt was despatched from Catterick at no notice, they left notes for wives, gone to Far East don't know for how long.
They made a moving sight parading every day, pale blue PT shirts. Navy PT shorts, black socks, boots and putties but no pith helmets, and armed with .303s. A brave sight.
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AAC pilots are flying soldiers, with basic infantry training at minimum, and operating in a dedicated aerial role in close proximity to ground troops, so usually fly in kit similar to the ground troops- i.e. DPM, combat boots, side arm, webbing and gat. They would be expected to join the fight on the ground if necessary
EG