USMC KC-130 down in Mississippi
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Back in the early 90s, a Herc that I was on, had to return to Southampton low level, because, as I recall the FE saying, there was a LOX leek. He explained that the LOX was located under the cockpit. I may have got this wrong, but I seem to recall him saying too, that an incident happened (over Australia?) in which a transporter lost its cockpit section due to the LOX cooking off. I may have got some of that wrong, he may have been spinning a yarn. But I found this picture - I'm not sure if there's any credible connection.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LOX_servicing.jpg
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LOX_servicing.jpg
an incident happened (over Australia?) in which a transporter lost its cockpit section due to the LOX cooking off
Report
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a215496.pdf
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Would a blade shedding be capable of severing the cockpit, or weakening it enough that it would come off early in whatever developed next?
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post6974240
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post6974240
On the video footage there is no apparent sign of the fin - quite a large structure on a Herc. With the aircraft impacting the ground inverted you would expect to see the fin broken to the side of the empennage.
Regarding the LOx, it is mounted well forward and low down in the fuselage in the unpressurised area surrounding the nose gear, roughly under the co-pilot's feet. It has reinforced structure around it, is free of critical components and vents to the outside. On USMC aircraft the LOx is optionally armoured and the flight deck floor above is almost always covered with armour.
Regarding the LOx, it is mounted well forward and low down in the fuselage in the unpressurised area surrounding the nose gear, roughly under the co-pilot's feet. It has reinforced structure around it, is free of critical components and vents to the outside. On USMC aircraft the LOx is optionally armoured and the flight deck floor above is almost always covered with armour.
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Would a blade shedding be capable of severing the cockpit, or weakening it enough that it would come off early in whatever developed next?
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post6974240
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post6974240
Thread Starter
I wouldn't think a Herc fuselage could be fatally damaged by a thrown prop blade. The fuselage is pretty tough (as evidenced by the fact this one is still recognizably an airframe, and not aluminum confetti, after a 20,000-foot fall), designed to take combat fire and survive, and thrown blades have passed through the cabins of "lesser" turboprops (e.g. DHC-8-xxx, ATR) without causing those planes to fall apart.
Of course, if a thrown blade hit something else, inside, (LOX, pyrotechnics), that would be a different story.
I noticed that also. But that could either be the primary event, or just a result of, say, the "flat spin" patrickal mentions.
Of course, if a thrown blade hit something else, inside, (LOX, pyrotechnics), that would be a different story.
On the video footage there is no apparent sign of the fin - quite a large structure on a Herc.
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Several news items have provided a few bits of information:
(1) One of the engines was located today, some distance from the main wreckage.
(2) Several bodies were recovered from farm fields, some distance from the main wreckage.
(3) At least one, perhaps two, open parachutes drifted down, empty.
(4) At least one parachute, still packed, was found some distance from the main wreckage.
(5) The two main impact areas are about one mile apart.
(1) One of the engines was located today, some distance from the main wreckage.
(2) Several bodies were recovered from farm fields, some distance from the main wreckage.
(3) At least one, perhaps two, open parachutes drifted down, empty.
(4) At least one parachute, still packed, was found some distance from the main wreckage.
(5) The two main impact areas are about one mile apart.
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I wouldn't think a Herc fuselage could be fatally damaged by a thrown prop blade. The fuselage is pretty tough (as evidenced by the fact this one is still recognizably an airframe, and not aluminum confetti, after a 20,000-foot fall), designed to take combat fire and survive, and thrown blades have passed through the cabins of "lesser" turboprops (e.g. DHC-8-xxx, ATR) without causing those planes to fall apart.
Of course, if a thrown blade hit something else, inside, (LOX, pyrotechnics), that would be a different story.
I noticed that also. But that could either be the primary event, or just a result of, say, the "flat spin" patrickal mentions.
Of course, if a thrown blade hit something else, inside, (LOX, pyrotechnics), that would be a different story.
I noticed that also. But that could either be the primary event, or just a result of, say, the "flat spin" patrickal mentions.
A Wisconsin ANG -130 on t/o from Mosul took a RPG into an engine. The crew shut down and landed safely.
Attended a brief in the 90s given by Brit harrier pilot on their shoot down of the Argentinean -130, from memory they expended multiple sidewinders plus cannon fire.
Appears to be pretty damage resistant.
There have been incidents of people taking improperly packed explosives/detonators on board helos that have gone off.
S/F, FOG
While I doubt a thrown blade would take down a C130, I wouldn't be so sure about loosing the entire propeller (e.g. a fractured drive shaft) - rapidly spinning props make a pretty good saw and could cut through significant structure.
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Marine Corps Releases Identities of 16 Servicemen Killed in KC-130T Crash 14 Jul 2017
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/14/mar...-kc-130t-crash
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/14/mar...-kc-130t-crash
We had a case in BC a couple of years ago where a Metro went in in the North Shore mountains north of Vancouver. The cockpit was severed in that. What happened is that the wings handclapped above after a near to root failure from overstressing. This led to one or both engines sawing into the fuselage enough that the cockpit came off. Or so the story is.
More likely if the whole disc went, but do those things go sideways, or do they just go forward and then drop below?
I'd venture that the possible damage depends on a number of factors, most likely the important one being at what point of rotation it let go and if it was flung in an arc through the fuselage. If it's an outboard flung into an inboard, it could be more than one blade flying around.
The detached engine is in line with some sort of a prop problem, but certainly not proof.
I spoke to an ex RAF guy in England back in the 90's who went into flying Navajo's in civvy world. He had a prop blade come off the starboard engine, go through the nose, hit the other hub, and tore that engine right out of its mounts. The guy somehow landed it, with three or four pax, in a cornfield out by Oxford without injuries.
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Parachutes
Several news items have provided a few bits of information:
(1) One of the engines was located today, some distance from the main wreckage.
(2) Several bodies were recovered from farm fields, some distance from the main wreckage.
(3) At least one, perhaps two, open parachutes drifted down, empty.
(4) At least one parachute, still packed, was found some distance from the main wreckage.
(5) The two main impact areas are about one mile apart.
(1) One of the engines was located today, some distance from the main wreckage.
(2) Several bodies were recovered from farm fields, some distance from the main wreckage.
(3) At least one, perhaps two, open parachutes drifted down, empty.
(4) At least one parachute, still packed, was found some distance from the main wreckage.
(5) The two main impact areas are about one mile apart.
Not sure of the situation in the KC130-T, but in the C130's I've operated two parachutes were stowed on the rear of the 245 Bulkhead at the forward end of the cargo compartment.
I spoke to an ex RAF guy in England back in the 90's who went into flying Navajo's in civvy world. He had a prop blade come off the starboard engine, go through the nose, hit the other hub, and tore that engine right out of its mounts. The guy somehow landed it, with three or four pax, in a cornfield out by Oxford without injuries.
) on 7th June 1993. The summary report is available here.I do recall reading a much more comprehensive online report about this accident several years ago, but I cannot recall where it was located.
[EDIT: Found it - full report on this particular Navajo accident here.
"The aircraft was operating on a scheduled passenger flight from Birmingham to Norwich, with a pilot and seven passengers on board when, as the flight passed south of King's Lynn, there was a loud ‘bang’ and the aircraft immediately rolled to the right and entered a tight spiral dive, or spin. The loud bang was caused by a blade, that had detached from the right propeller, penetrating the aircraft's nose baggage bay and exiting through the upper left fuselage structure. This blade then struck and removed the front of the left propeller assembly. The right engine tore away from the wing, precipitating the loss of control, and the left engine stopped. The commander managed to regain control of the aircraft and successfully carried out a forced landing in a field of cereal crop. All eight occupants evacuated the aircraft with no serious injury".]
Last edited by MrBernoulli; 15th Jul 2017 at 21:57.
It was actually near the town of King's Lynn, Norfolk (almost 100 miles north-east of Oxford ) on 7th June 1993. The summary report is available here.
I do recall reading a much more comprehensive online report about this accident several years ago, but I cannot recall where it was located.
[EDIT: Found it - full report on this particular Navajo accident here.
"The aircraft was operating on a scheduled passenger flight from Birmingham to Norwich, with a pilot and seven passengers on board when, as the flight passed south of King's Lynn, there was a loud ‘bang’ and the aircraft immediately rolled to the right and entered a tight spiral dive, or spin. The loud bang was caused by a blade, that had detached from the right propeller, penetrating the aircraft's nose baggage bay and exiting through the upper left fuselage structure. This blade then struck and removed the front of the left propeller assembly. The right engine tore away from the wing, precipitating the loss of control, and the left engine stopped. The commander managed to regain control of the aircraft and successfully carried out a forced landing in a field of cereal crop. All eight occupants evacuated the aircraft with no serious injury".]
) on 7th June 1993. The summary report is available here.I do recall reading a much more comprehensive online report about this accident several years ago, but I cannot recall where it was located.
[EDIT: Found it - full report on this particular Navajo accident here.
"The aircraft was operating on a scheduled passenger flight from Birmingham to Norwich, with a pilot and seven passengers on board when, as the flight passed south of King's Lynn, there was a loud ‘bang’ and the aircraft immediately rolled to the right and entered a tight spiral dive, or spin. The loud bang was caused by a blade, that had detached from the right propeller, penetrating the aircraft's nose baggage bay and exiting through the upper left fuselage structure. This blade then struck and removed the front of the left propeller assembly. The right engine tore away from the wing, precipitating the loss of control, and the left engine stopped. The commander managed to regain control of the aircraft and successfully carried out a forced landing in a field of cereal crop. All eight occupants evacuated the aircraft with no serious injury".]
I was in Dublin working on starting a competitor to Ryanair and this guy sent his resume in for a pilot's job. Never even mentioned this incident. I called him and eventually it came up and he was "no big deal" sort of.
I think he won some high award for airmanship. That has to be one of the top examples of outstanding airmanship in general aviation piloting of all time.
Anyways, a detached engine severed cockpit, and even if its only one blade, a lot of things can happen in that sequence.
Maybe something entirely different here.
Open chutes, blue sky where the cockpit was, an awful scenario, but maybe some grabbed chutes and bailed, without being strapped in. Pulled, but couldn't hang on. Respect to all.
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Parachutes
Knowing that the unit was heading for China Lake and Yuma for training the parachutes may have been cargo. UK forces use both locations for high altitude parachute training and trials. YPG became a second home for quite a period.
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It was not unknown to have personnel drop into an exercise area vice landing. Usually when USA or SOCOM was picking up the tab as that was their requirement. I don’t know if they were planning on dropping the non-aircrew then landing with the rest of their equipment, if they boarded rigged or were going to practice in-flight rigging, etc.
S/F, FOG
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A memorial video of those lost:
https://www.dvidshub.net/video/53807...-crash-tribute
https://www.dvidshub.net/video/53807...-crash-tribute