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So did you ever get lost ?

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So did you ever get lost ?

Old 6th Jul 2017, 18:55
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So did you ever get lost ?

I mean totally, absolutely, no radar vectors, no VOR, no comms, no fix and one eye on the fuel gauge lost ?

Question prompted by my recent research into this tragic loss:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft)
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 19:59
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Originally Posted by Fonsini View Post
I mean totally, absolutely, no radar vectors, no VOR, no comms, no fix and one eye on the fuel gauge lost ?

Question prompted by my recent research into this tragic loss:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft)
You are only lost if you THINK you know where you are; otherwise you are uncertain of position!
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 20:17
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Not me, RCC at Pitreavie we get a call that a PA28 on delivery is lost over the Atlantic. Scramble the Nimrod (remember them) from Kinloss no joy. Pilot eventually calls visual with land, definitely the west coast of Scotland he says. Pilot was found in the Sahara with his aircraft.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 20:24
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On my final nav test in a JP with only a radio and true bearings to navigate with at 25000ft over 8/8 cloud.
The tester just remained mute, so I declared an emergency, got a fix and DR'ed back to base.
I was passed with the dry comment about not being the first aviator to be totally lost!!
Unforecast jet stream the reason!
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 20:29
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"Please, Sir, I'm not lost - it's just that I don't know where I am !"
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 21:00
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Lost

My first instructional trip at Valley. High level to Chiv, Low level back up the Welsh border to Valley. It became obvious that stude was unaware of his whereabouts somewhere Ludlow when we passed two ENORMOUS masts. I tried to help: "Look for features unique in elevation" Silence, then "Pylons" said he. 630 feet high. I learnt early about students.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 21:08
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Old Native American saying "You are not lost. It is the place you are looking for that is lost"
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 21:31
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After some manoeuvring QFI asks student out of Valley, "OK, where are we?"

"Over my girlfriend's house"

"Where's that then?"

"I'm not telling You"
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 22:42
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"What do all the crewmen on 72 Sqn have in common?"

"They've all been flying with D*** B***** when it's the first time he's ever been lost..."
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 00:58
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I seem to remember the motto on the crest of nav school when I was there was "Man is Not Lost".

Yeah, right!

French ATC to Victor, heading South

"Confirm you are 'eading for Nice?"

Me, after quick look at H2S screen

Erm, come 30 degrees port captain!

Well all those flipping headlands looked the same on radar!
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 02:44
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Mid 70's. 0200 hrs. 1000ft above the Mediterranean. Surface surveillance. Intermittent radar, random tracks tactics. Got a radar fix as we descended at about 2200 the previous day. Loran is a fickle friend - one line since about 2300. We are setting up to side scan the Egyptian coast and the Soviet anchorage at Sallum - latest int is that there are 12+ vessels there. I brief radar operator to give me a fix off the headland.
Switch on - scanitty, scannity, scan. Switch off. Good radar fix - Nav system within 2nm, and .... no contacts. Eh? Turn round, do it again ..... no contacts. Something is not quite right here ... continue west.
Co-pilot then says he has the lights of a village on the coast to port. Err, we're meant to be at least 25nm from the coast. I visit the flight deck - there are the lights of a largish city on the coast to port. Turn right I say, descend to 500ft and head north sharpish. This buys me some time to look at the topo - it has to be Tobruk, and there is a headland bearing a marked resemblance to the one at Sallum. I readjust the radar fix.
We turn the radar on again south of Crete - not too bad but turning east and a few more radar fixes establishes a serious ground speed input error. We can't complete the job and go home early - using airplot. Beer for breakfast.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 04:43
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I confess to being something of a Larson fan, and this came to mind, click for the larger image.

IMG_0131.JPG
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 14:14
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Final nav test at valley in Aunty Betty's Fun Jet. Low level phase looking for a small railway station near the Wash ranges. Getting closer and closer to ToT. Starting to sweat and to mutter under my breath. From the back seat "You'll see more at 200 feet than 50". Came up a "few" feet, and there it was and only + 1 second on target. Thanks M...S... (had a large Alsatian, would let people into the house but not out again)
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 14:48
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Ah, Reynolds, same period, same sea, opposite coast, same targets.

Also intermittent radar - truly intermittent. It kept cutting out. Also choice of nav kit IIRC, Doppler or computer but not both.

So we eases in for Mk 1 eyeball. Nowt. Went up the front and practically flying along the coast at Malaga, I remember a man walking a dog onthe beach, about 5-6 am.

Still we surprised our target approaching radar off from the north. Caught them with lots of plates open on.deck.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 15:07
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Chistopher Columbus

Didn't know where he was going when he set off.
Didn't know where he was when he got there.
Didn't know where he'd been when he got back.

Wherefore Christopher Columbus is known as the "Great Navigator".
[Trad.]
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 18:57
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I'm still looking for Grafham Water. My logbook says I took-off in a JP5 at 1015hrs on 10 Oct 1986.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 19:15
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Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger View Post
I'm still looking for Grafham Water. My logbook says I took-off in a JP5 at 1015hrs on 10 Oct 1986.
Big wet thing near the former Midland Radar/North Luffenham. Unmissable (or not, clearly!!)

Did your JP have floats? Waiting for Spazsinbad to produce the photo
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 19:19
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Following a railway line in southern Germany headed N-S, forgot to look outside for a while and when I did, no railway line. Took some significant back tracking to see where it had turned 90 degrees and entered a very long tunnel. So back to the old adage, I wasn't lost because I knew I was in Germany, probably Bavaria, hadn't yet crossed the Alps, so I had a good stair rail check feature. Lost, certainly not - did I know where I was - not in the slightest.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 19:20
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I have never been lost!
I have, however, operated overhead unfamiliar terrain for considerable periods of time.
I think Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett said..."I have never been lost..I have been dreadful confused for a month or two!"
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 20:38
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Big wet thing near the former Midland Radar/North Luffenham. Unmissable (or not, clearly!!)

Did your JP have floats? Waiting for Spazsinbad to produce the photo
Ah,, that would explain it, he was obviously looking in Cambridgeshire when he should have been looking in Rutland.
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