So did you ever get lost ?
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
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No wonder my Navigation was cr@p 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Kalgoorlie, W.A. , Australia
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I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Copilot, out of Aden, "nav, what's that island down* on the right"
"Africa"
*Bad news if it wasn't down"
"Africa"
*Bad news if it wasn't down"
Before the days of FMS in the FunBus, if off-airways and out of ground-based navaids, one relied on the skill of the directional consultant...
One of who was the late 'Admiral Zig-Zag' (RIP). Thoroughly nice chap, whose nickname resulted from an exchange tour as whatever they call flight commanders at BRNC Dartmouth....but his heading changes were often rather large, shortly followed by equally large corrections in the opposite direction. In a second aircraft we once followed the Admiral from ASI, whereupon our nav announced that we were heading 30 deg in the wrong direction - it was later discovered that the Admiral had fat-fingered the next waypoint and it hadn't been cross-checked.... So not all his fault that time.
As one captain once said after a flight with the Admiral "Doesn't he know a number smaller than 20?"
So on a double-crewed jaunt to the Pacific, it was agreed that the first tourist would navigate from McClellan to Hickam, while the Admiral would navigate back - on the grounds that America was a bigger target than Hawaii, so he'd probably be able to find it.
But, as I say, a really nice chap - and one of the few Flt Cdrs honest enough to admit that his professional skills weren't perhaps the best.
One of who was the late 'Admiral Zig-Zag' (RIP). Thoroughly nice chap, whose nickname resulted from an exchange tour as whatever they call flight commanders at BRNC Dartmouth....but his heading changes were often rather large, shortly followed by equally large corrections in the opposite direction. In a second aircraft we once followed the Admiral from ASI, whereupon our nav announced that we were heading 30 deg in the wrong direction - it was later discovered that the Admiral had fat-fingered the next waypoint and it hadn't been cross-checked.... So not all his fault that time.
As one captain once said after a flight with the Admiral "Doesn't he know a number smaller than 20?"
So on a double-crewed jaunt to the Pacific, it was agreed that the first tourist would navigate from McClellan to Hickam, while the Admiral would navigate back - on the grounds that America was a bigger target than Hawaii, so he'd probably be able to find it.
But, as I say, a really nice chap - and one of the few Flt Cdrs honest enough to admit that his professional skills weren't perhaps the best.
I had a flight commander who when a Vulcan navigator directed an internal aids approach to St Mawgan, he thought. The French took it differently. "Lost in France" by, was it Bonnie Tyler, was often sung in his presence.
Night bomber ops in 1940/41 record a number of occasions on which, at night and in or over weather, crews became very palpably lost. The tasks facing crew of that era, with the minimal kit they had, sometimes make me shudder. The most egregious example of which I'm aware has to be the Whitley crew from 10 Sqn that headed out for a target in the Ruhr in late May 1940, and who suffered a lightning strike outbound. They could not identify a legitimate target in the industrial haze and searchlight glare - remember, they were given point targets at that time, well before area bombing became the norm. They turned back west to head for the designated 'last resort' target, the airfield at Flushing. They finally got a glimpse of an airfield with a lit flare path, dropped bombs, and headed home to Yorkshire. Some later calculations suggested the airfield would have been Schipol. In fact, as became clear within a few hours, they had bombed RAF Bassingbourn, near Cambridge. The time and distance aspects of that night's work make one wonder where that aircraft really went after the lightning strike. (The Nav was exonerated in the subsequent Inquiry, the pilot was demoted to 2nd Pilot, and both were back on Ops in days. Very little damage was done, causing the Air Staff to wonder a little about the 250lb bombs then in use.)
I recall 'Fate is the Hunter' has a very cautionary tale about using magnetic heading and distance in areas where variation changes rapidly and significantly over short distances. Luckily the survivors were found by reflying the route as reported rather than drawing it on a chart.
Nigerian In Law
Does being temporarily uncertain of ones position count as being lost ?
I guess my request for a QDM would negate the first question.........
NEO
I guess my request for a QDM would negate the first question.........
NEO
There was a stude on my Flying Scholarship Course at Sywell in 1961 who allegedly set course on his landaway in an Auster using the little domed fuel gauge in front of the cockpit as a "compass". I think he eventually landed at Watton and wad surrounded by RAFP on arrival. He went on to be a senior and respected Canberra operator
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: England
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I took a PA38 from Cardiff to Halfpenny Green with another instructor. After about 20'seconds in the cruise we both became bored and decided to fly there purely using the rudder.
After about 20 minutes of self congratulations on our expert further effects aviating, it dawned on us we hadn't a clue where we were. We were shortly joined by a Gazelle, complete with angry door gunner.
Now neither of us were experts on military communications, but we both agreed it wasn't "Hi chaps, fancy a look around our new Hereford base"!
After about 20 minutes of self congratulations on our expert further effects aviating, it dawned on us we hadn't a clue where we were. We were shortly joined by a Gazelle, complete with angry door gunner.
Now neither of us were experts on military communications, but we both agreed it wasn't "Hi chaps, fancy a look around our new Hereford base"!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Question, particularly for pilots.
You are planning a route at about 1000-1500 feet. There is a TV mast some 1700 feet en route. The weather is potentially Midlands poor.
How do you plan your route in relation to that mast?
You are planning a route at about 1000-1500 feet. There is a TV mast some 1700 feet en route. The weather is potentially Midlands poor.
How do you plan your route in relation to that mast?
Question, particularly for pilots.
You are planning a route at about 1000-1500 feet. There is a TV mast some 1700 feet en route. The weather is potentially Midlands poor.
How do you plan your route in relation to that mast?
You are planning a route at about 1000-1500 feet. There is a TV mast some 1700 feet en route. The weather is potentially Midlands poor.
How do you plan your route in relation to that mast?
WTF else would anyone do?
I recall 'Fate is the Hunter' has a very cautionary tale about using magnetic heading and distance in areas where variation changes rapidly
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BEagle, I ask as that was my plan but my very green driver's airframe, a pilot officer to boot, had planned the route before he was allocated a nav to hold his hand in the Chippie.
I was under enthused by his plan to use it as a waypoint.
I have some sympathy for BomberH's plan but suggest that is more appropriate for a navigator
I was under enthused by his plan to use it as a waypoint.
I have some sympathy for BomberH's plan but suggest that is more appropriate for a navigator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
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To be fair; back seat of an F4 to a Wessex everywhere at 50' was a different game; and the banter was pretty harsh. I would rather salute the skills of the crewmen who could step in and give a perfect tactical talk-on to the exact field whilst looking 90deg off axis. Gentlemen may be a stretch; scholars of the art for sure.