Military Mental Health
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Military Mental Health
Sorry if this has been posted before but surely it is a worthwhile discussion topic?
Wife of RAF pilot who killed himself calls on military to offer more support | UK | News | Express.co.uk
Wife of RAF pilot who killed himself calls on military to offer more support | UK | News | Express.co.uk
The RAF has been at a crossroads with aircrew mental health for far too long and it really needs to take a grip and make some joined-up decisions. At the moment it tries to encourage mental health discussions and genuinely promotes the issues but it remains hard-wired to the 'how can I help... you are grounded... loss of green card... 1 year to get better... 1 further year from Med board to exit... rinse and repeat' process.
At the moment aircrew mental health remains hidden to the point where it cannot be before a 'disappearance' from role and subsequent quiet exit, or something much much worse.
At the moment aircrew mental health remains hidden to the point where it cannot be before a 'disappearance' from role and subsequent quiet exit, or something much much worse.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
JTO, true, we lost an ex-flt cdr about 30 years ago. There were signs, with hindsight, but what can untrained JOs do?
It is not just mental health but any health issues particularly amongst air crew, hence flying pay insurance.
I had hearing issues 20 years before I retired and although downgraded remained on front line noisy jobs. Only on retirement did I get compensation and hearing aids.
I think aircrew in general, who want to remain in, avoid medics like the plague.
It is not just mental health but any health issues particularly amongst air crew, hence flying pay insurance.
I had hearing issues 20 years before I retired and although downgraded remained on front line noisy jobs. Only on retirement did I get compensation and hearing aids.
I think aircrew in general, who want to remain in, avoid medics like the plague.
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I think aircrew in general, who want to remain in, avoid medics like the plague.
For good reason. You may as well be speaking to the Stn Cdr.
There appears to be no 'mates in confidence' chats with Flight Safety Officers either.
I dare say that there are some honourable Padres around the bizarres.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
AG, indeed, medical confidentiality is more myth than fact. Had personal experience where MO gave us a very thorough briefing on one of the airmen.
May I respectfully disagree. I had cause to make use of the RAF mental health provision last year. I left it far longer than I should have before seeking help from the SMO. Once I did the system looked after me brilliantly. I was never grounded and it has not affected my career since.
I briefed my Sqn on it afterwards and am not ashamed of it. The bottom line is the provision is excellent and not once did I feel like my career was in jeopardy. The problem is that you need admit a weakness and ask for help. Pilots aren't very good at that.
I knew Nick well and I wish I could have reached out to him and let him know help was there. Sadly we never got the chance.
BV
I briefed my Sqn on it afterwards and am not ashamed of it. The bottom line is the provision is excellent and not once did I feel like my career was in jeopardy. The problem is that you need admit a weakness and ask for help. Pilots aren't very good at that.
I knew Nick well and I wish I could have reached out to him and let him know help was there. Sadly we never got the chance.
BV
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Bob, good to hear. I know one pilot who was accused of malingering just short of LMF and threatened with grounding. At his own expense he was correctly diagnosed by a civilian consultant and returned to flying duties.
If it is now different one hopes that it is widely known too.
If it is now different one hopes that it is widely known too.
The actual help you get when you find yourself put in the system, from doctors, through DCMH, through community psychiatric nurses, to the consultant psychiatrists themselves is absolutely excellent. Like Bob, I found myself having to use it after noticing several things that were out of character that I didn't want to continue.
In my case, I did get grounded; in the end, permanently. But, critically, I'm better. I'm healthier, and can realise that staying where I was would have been so bad that a grounding would have been the least of my worries. It is genuinely terrifying to think I could have been on a trajectory that ended like Nick's.
There are still stigmas attached though, and I know lots of ex-colleagues who considered it either malingering or a cheap way to get out of a return of service! From senior officers, I saw nothing but lip service, and comments after the fact about how we needed to "look out for each other" after a friend was rapidly posted and discharged. In one case, when I spoke to a senior officer about some issues, he resorted to bullying, threatening me with postings and unattractive working patterns if I didn't step into line.
It's certainly a lonely situation. My last station had lots of people posting on social media about supporting mental health in the armed forces and encouraging everyone to reach out if they thought a colleague was fragile, but I don't think a single one of them actually spoke to me at the time. Lots of effort put into encouraging others to do the right thing, and not much actual action!
The provision of care is fantastic, life-savingly so. What's sad is an environment that makes people feel like they can't use it.
In my case, I did get grounded; in the end, permanently. But, critically, I'm better. I'm healthier, and can realise that staying where I was would have been so bad that a grounding would have been the least of my worries. It is genuinely terrifying to think I could have been on a trajectory that ended like Nick's.
There are still stigmas attached though, and I know lots of ex-colleagues who considered it either malingering or a cheap way to get out of a return of service! From senior officers, I saw nothing but lip service, and comments after the fact about how we needed to "look out for each other" after a friend was rapidly posted and discharged. In one case, when I spoke to a senior officer about some issues, he resorted to bullying, threatening me with postings and unattractive working patterns if I didn't step into line.
It's certainly a lonely situation. My last station had lots of people posting on social media about supporting mental health in the armed forces and encouraging everyone to reach out if they thought a colleague was fragile, but I don't think a single one of them actually spoke to me at the time. Lots of effort put into encouraging others to do the right thing, and not much actual action!
The provision of care is fantastic, life-savingly so. What's sad is an environment that makes people feel like they can't use it.
Greatest sympathy for all those effected by this topic. 
Unfortunately, having some experience myself, I feel there are great problems with this issue. The compounding factor that: admitting a problem will probably destroy your life / lifestyle, can make the victim feel that there is no way out (catch-22). I suggest that the basic situation for those who report psychiatric problems should be that they maintain their pay (including all elements) during the duration of their treatment and remaining service. Medical pension payments should reflect the realistic ongoing loss of earnings potential for all Med / War pensions but, they do not!
OAP
Unfortunately, having some experience myself, I feel there are great problems with this issue. The compounding factor that: admitting a problem will probably destroy your life / lifestyle, can make the victim feel that there is no way out (catch-22). I suggest that the basic situation for those who report psychiatric problems should be that they maintain their pay (including all elements) during the duration of their treatment and remaining service. Medical pension payments should reflect the realistic ongoing loss of earnings potential for all Med / War pensions but, they do not!
OAP
Pilot - Peer Assistance Network
It may be that some who read this thread don't know that the UK Civil Aviation Authority is setting up a Peer - Pilot Assistance Network whose purpose is to provide a means by which commercial air transport pilots (initially, but no doubt available to other aviation communities later) can seek and obtain help in confidence when they don't know where else to turn or fear for their future if they open up to others in their Company.
Notification was made public in Information Notice (IN) 2017/005 via Civil Aviation Authority, where the objectives are explained. Whilst there are some air operators in Europe who already offer such an assistance programme, most do not, and it might be quite impossible for the smaller operators to do so. For this reason, the CAA is formulating plans to make available a peer assistance programme that will enable all UK AOC-holders to satisfy a developing EASA requirement on this topic. Insofar as confidentiality will be a key element if the programme is to succeed, it is probable that an agency separate from the Authority and from all air operators will need to be involved.
Whilst I don't know quite when preparations will be completed, I do know that work has begun to get it up and running and that those who are involved are keen to see it start. I have no doubt that the CAA will tell us, via another IN, when it is available and how pilots can make use of it.
It may be that some who read this thread don't know that the UK Civil Aviation Authority is setting up a Peer - Pilot Assistance Network whose purpose is to provide a means by which commercial air transport pilots (initially, but no doubt available to other aviation communities later) can seek and obtain help in confidence when they don't know where else to turn or fear for their future if they open up to others in their Company.
Notification was made public in Information Notice (IN) 2017/005 via Civil Aviation Authority, where the objectives are explained. Whilst there are some air operators in Europe who already offer such an assistance programme, most do not, and it might be quite impossible for the smaller operators to do so. For this reason, the CAA is formulating plans to make available a peer assistance programme that will enable all UK AOC-holders to satisfy a developing EASA requirement on this topic. Insofar as confidentiality will be a key element if the programme is to succeed, it is probable that an agency separate from the Authority and from all air operators will need to be involved.
Whilst I don't know quite when preparations will be completed, I do know that work has begun to get it up and running and that those who are involved are keen to see it start. I have no doubt that the CAA will tell us, via another IN, when it is available and how pilots can make use of it.
It is understandable, but wrong, to infer from individual tragedies like Nick's death (I also knew him well) that mental health provision for aircrew is fundamentally broken. That was certainly the view set out in the Express's sensationalised reporting. I have two friends who self-referred to the "brain doc" with depression; one continued flying throughout and the other was only grounded for 2 weeks during initial assessment. That never gets any publicity, though, and there are probably plenty of other cases I'm unaware of. Ironically it's reporting such as that of Nick's case which does the most damage by creating a false impression, causing those without any personal knowledge of positive outcomes to worry unduly about seeking help.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Easy Street, false impression or not, the most important thing is it has opened up the topic for discussion. Secondly I believe it is a widely held belief that reporting is detrimental to one's career.
It is apparent that support is available but that equally some people are told to brace up. I had an issue I raised with my 2RO who told me his 1RO had his fullest confidence etc although the 1RO did modify his anger.
It is apparent that support is available but that equally some people are told to brace up. I had an issue I raised with my 2RO who told me his 1RO had his fullest confidence etc although the 1RO did modify his anger.
Easy Street
Pleased to hear you have positive opinions about the outcomes for your friends. However, in contrast to the excellent work of the medics in my case, I found that my chain of command had filed sympathy between **** and syphilis.
IMO, the financial / career issues can still weigh heavily against those with medical problems needing to seek help and, I see that removing as much as possible of that concern might help them. The financial cost of such improved support would be balanced by the benefits to all personnel and, just might prevent some mental health issues even happening!
Notwithstanding all that, for anyone thinking that their medical problem needs hiding, I advise seeing your Doc of choice. The outcome should always be better than living with a problem.
OAP
Pleased to hear you have positive opinions about the outcomes for your friends. However, in contrast to the excellent work of the medics in my case, I found that my chain of command had filed sympathy between **** and syphilis.
IMO, the financial / career issues can still weigh heavily against those with medical problems needing to seek help and, I see that removing as much as possible of that concern might help them. The financial cost of such improved support would be balanced by the benefits to all personnel and, just might prevent some mental health issues even happening!
Notwithstanding all that, for anyone thinking that their medical problem needs hiding, I advise seeing your Doc of choice. The outcome should always be better than living with a problem.
OAP
Once upon a time, back in the days of blue landrovers when only rock apes wore cabbage kit, bosses and flight commanders were expected to know their squadron aircrew and whether they had any issues in their personal or professional lives. Unlike the commercial airlines, the military was supposed to care about its people...
Then came biz-speak and computers. Bosses remustered as Wing Commander (Typist) leaving the 'welfare' of individuals to Flt Cdrs. Those of the old school still held an interest in their underlings, but an increasing number of desperate thrusters simply didn't want to know any bad news and would assure the Boss that all was fine, no matter what.
This led to people bottling up their stress, with the obvious, sad and avoidable result.
Then came biz-speak and computers. Bosses remustered as Wing Commander (Typist) leaving the 'welfare' of individuals to Flt Cdrs. Those of the old school still held an interest in their underlings, but an increasing number of desperate thrusters simply didn't want to know any bad news and would assure the Boss that all was fine, no matter what.
This led to people bottling up their stress, with the obvious, sad and avoidable result.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Actually BEagle I suspect the stress level is at the flt cdr level and higher. You will recall the Scampton stn cdr, I think Cottesmore had a similar problem. Then Wittering.
BEagle.
I know you like to believe everything was better back in the day and in this case you may be right.
It was not my experience though. My chain of command couldn't have handled it better. Admittedly they didn't spot anything before I spoke to the doctors but then I guarantee pilots of yesteryear were just as adept as the pilots of today at keeping their problems to themselves.
It wasn't a million years ago that the military used to shoot people for cowardice. I'd say we've come a long way since.
A problem shared is a problem halved and it was certainly true in my case. The sooner you tell someone the better.
My problem wasn't massive compared to the issues some of today's servicemen struggle with but it was increasingly preventing me from doing my job. Big or small they are all worth sorting before they snowball.
I'm not trying to pick a fight BEags but I do feel I need to stick up for the modern RAF sometimes.
BV
I know you like to believe everything was better back in the day and in this case you may be right.
It was not my experience though. My chain of command couldn't have handled it better. Admittedly they didn't spot anything before I spoke to the doctors but then I guarantee pilots of yesteryear were just as adept as the pilots of today at keeping their problems to themselves.
It wasn't a million years ago that the military used to shoot people for cowardice. I'd say we've come a long way since.
A problem shared is a problem halved and it was certainly true in my case. The sooner you tell someone the better.
My problem wasn't massive compared to the issues some of today's servicemen struggle with but it was increasingly preventing me from doing my job. Big or small they are all worth sorting before they snowball.
I'm not trying to pick a fight BEags but I do feel I need to stick up for the modern RAF sometimes.
BV
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BV, we had a chap, second tour on type but a change from high level to low level who decided that enough was enough. Probably many causes but nuclear weapons was probably not one.
I don't know the process as he left the sqn while I was away but he was grounded, re qualified in a different branch and subsequently joined a different service. It appears probable that the system treated him well but he acquired the nickname ' chicken nnnnnn' from his previous colleagues. How times have changed.
I don't know the process as he left the sqn while I was away but he was grounded, re qualified in a different branch and subsequently joined a different service. It appears probable that the system treated him well but he acquired the nickname ' chicken nnnnnn' from his previous colleagues. How times have changed.
Bob, I'm talking about the rot having set in during my time from around the time of GW1 or just before. Whenever it was that Bosses were rarely seen outside their offices as they were getting to grips with word processing... But I'm sure that stresses are probably even worse today.
PN - no idea about what you mean. The only stress faced by our excellent Stn Cdr at sunny Scampton was when he broke his ankle playing mess rugby and had to delegate the AOC's Annual Inspection Parade Commander task to OC Ops. Wittering had Harriers at that time and Cottesmore was on careless maintenance preparing for the Tornado, the Whistling Tits having just moved out.
PN - no idea about what you mean. The only stress faced by our excellent Stn Cdr at sunny Scampton was when he broke his ankle playing mess rugby and had to delegate the AOC's Annual Inspection Parade Commander task to OC Ops. Wittering had Harriers at that time and Cottesmore was on careless maintenance preparing for the Tornado, the Whistling Tits having just moved out.