North Korea!
Afaik, most of the NK artillery lining the DMZ is buried deep into hillsides
Existing pictures of North Korean artillery show an amazing variety of muzzle flashes from identical guns. As they are still using 1950s ammunition I would be surprised if all of it was serviceable.
I can imagine a large proportion detonating in the barrel, falling short or very short or veering off in various directions.
I heard an interview last week on Radio 4, they were talking to a lady journalist ( I think) who had spent some time in the North and she seemed to me, at least, to know what she was talking about, She said the NK army is basically a second world war army and nearly all its soldiers are very poorly equipped. I reckon if it comes to a shooting war against the South and USA, it will be like Gulf War II again, a complete walk over.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 56
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Etudiant.
While the NK forces have a history of firing concealed artillery they have never faced modern opposition. The last time NK artillery was seriously targetted it was by piston engined fighters, WW2 era bazookas or WW2/just after tanks.
The effect of multiple simultaneous MLRS strikes would have a profound effect imho on any troops trying to fire or co ordinate fire towards the South.
Incoming fire, and especially overwhelming incoming fire has a huge effect on troops and their ability to do even the most simple of tasks.
While a different task, troops on the peacetime firing range may put 25, 26, 27 or 28 rounds from a rifle magazine
on target. Troops in combat with rounds coming back at them may score one kill per many thousands of rounds fired.
Let's just hope that KJU finds a way out if this. His population arent getting a say in this and it seems unfair that they should suffer, even if willingly for his posturing.
While the NK forces have a history of firing concealed artillery they have never faced modern opposition. The last time NK artillery was seriously targetted it was by piston engined fighters, WW2 era bazookas or WW2/just after tanks.
The effect of multiple simultaneous MLRS strikes would have a profound effect imho on any troops trying to fire or co ordinate fire towards the South.
Incoming fire, and especially overwhelming incoming fire has a huge effect on troops and their ability to do even the most simple of tasks.
While a different task, troops on the peacetime firing range may put 25, 26, 27 or 28 rounds from a rifle magazine
on target. Troops in combat with rounds coming back at them may score one kill per many thousands of rounds fired.
Let's just hope that KJU finds a way out if this. His population arent getting a say in this and it seems unfair that they should suffer, even if willingly for his posturing.
I reckon if it comes to a shooting war against the South and USA, it will be like Gulf War II again, a complete walk over.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 56
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air pig.
While I hope this all just dies down I have given a lot of thought to what could happen after any US strikes.
This is a very interesting discussion point as we are obviously dealing with a population who have a culture of worshipping their leader (I know the culture is there but have no idea just how much of the applause/crying is genuine).
We cant even know if tubby will survive any attacks.
If he dies goodness knows what would follow, if he does then would the population rise up in anger and who would the anger be against. If he lives would he become a more superior god like figure in NK culture?
Interesting times lay ahead.
While I hope this all just dies down I have given a lot of thought to what could happen after any US strikes.
This is a very interesting discussion point as we are obviously dealing with a population who have a culture of worshipping their leader (I know the culture is there but have no idea just how much of the applause/crying is genuine).
We cant even know if tubby will survive any attacks.
If he dies goodness knows what would follow, if he does then would the population rise up in anger and who would the anger be against. If he lives would he become a more superior god like figure in NK culture?
Interesting times lay ahead.
Equipped with 20,000 artillery pieces, 1,000 short- and medium-range missiles, 70 submarines, more than 400 patrol/missile boats and 563 combat aircraft, the Hermit Kingdom's forces are poised to do maximum damage in a sneak attack against South Korea.
How many B-1 Bombers are there? 62 maybe?
Dropping how many Bombs per pass? 84 500 Pounders
Assuming 100% Launch Rate, No Aborts, All Bombs on target with no misses or duplication....and NOK Guns and Crews in the open in precisely located positions......you still only get 25% of them.
Then what?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 56
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASless.
Has anyone said that only B1s' will be involved?
We could equally add 70-130 cruise missile strikes, ten full MLRS salvos plus carrierborne strikes.
The MLRS on their own can completely blanket ten square km in a matter of seconds.
Add in the battery and counter battery support from SK and thats a big addition to the equation.
Has anyone said that only B1s' will be involved?
We could equally add 70-130 cruise missile strikes, ten full MLRS salvos plus carrierborne strikes.
The MLRS on their own can completely blanket ten square km in a matter of seconds.
Add in the battery and counter battery support from SK and thats a big addition to the equation.
Air pig.
While I hope this all just dies down I have given a lot of thought to what could happen after any US strikes.
This is a very interesting discussion point as we are obviously dealing with a population who have a culture of worshipping their leader (I know the culture is there but have no idea just how much of the applause/crying is genuine).
We cant even know if tubby will survive any attacks.
If he dies goodness knows what would follow, if he does then would the population rise up in anger and who would the anger be against. If he lives would he become a more superior god like figure in NK culture?
Interesting times lay ahead.
While I hope this all just dies down I have given a lot of thought to what could happen after any US strikes.
This is a very interesting discussion point as we are obviously dealing with a population who have a culture of worshipping their leader (I know the culture is there but have no idea just how much of the applause/crying is genuine).
We cant even know if tubby will survive any attacks.
If he dies goodness knows what would follow, if he does then would the population rise up in anger and who would the anger be against. If he lives would he become a more superior god like figure in NK culture?
Interesting times lay ahead.
If they do attack even in retaliation, and overwhelm the NK forces and force surrender, then they have a responsibilty to the NK population, would they make the same errors as happened in Iraq. Could they control and calm the civil population which has been in effect brainwashed over the years by the Kim dynasty.
Should Kim and his accolytes survive and be captured like Saddam Hussein, what do you do with him, an international court or a court of his countryfolk?
Some recent comments hereare discussing weapons systems and strike capabilities, but whilst you may attack, the cconsequences of the attack need to be thought through, because if Kim attacks SK and destorys Soeul and other cities he will not have a lot to lose and by that he could employ his 5.5 million army with massive losses plus the use of various WMD he holds.
Before anything happens I do hope that this has been thought through, but I suspect not.
Last edited by air pig; 14th Aug 2017 at 21:30.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA STATE
Age: 78
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PROJECT STARFISH- HIGH ALT NUKE
The 50th anniversary of Starfish Prime: the nuke that shook the world - Bad Astronomy : Bad Astronomy
[quote]On July 9, 1962, the US launched a Thor missile from Johnston island, an atoll about 1500 kilometers (900 miles) southwest of Hawaii. The missile arced up to a height of over 1100 km (660 miles), then came back down. At the preprogrammed height of 400 km (240 miles), just seconds after 09:00 UTC, the 1.4 megaton nuclear warhead detonated. And all hell broke loose.
..
+++
NOW HOW ABOUT A CEP OF 450 MILES ?
[quote]On July 9, 1962, the US launched a Thor missile from Johnston island, an atoll about 1500 kilometers (900 miles) southwest of Hawaii. The missile arced up to a height of over 1100 km (660 miles), then came back down. At the preprogrammed height of 400 km (240 miles), just seconds after 09:00 UTC, the 1.4 megaton nuclear warhead detonated. And all hell broke loose.
..
But the effects were far more than a simple light show. When the bomb detonated, those electrons underwent incredible acceleration. When that happens they create a brief but extremely powerful magnetic field. This is called an electromagnetic pulse, or EMP. The strength of the pulse was so huge that it affected the flow of electricity on the Earth hundreds of kilometers away! In Hawaii it blew out hundreds of streetlights, and caused widespread telephone outages. Other effects included electrical surges on airplanes and radio blackouts.
The EMP had been predicted by scientists, but the Starfish Prime pulse was far larger than expected. And there was another effect that hadn’t been predicted accurately. Many of the electrons from the blast didn’t fall down into the Earth’s atmosphere, but instead lingered in space for months, trapped by Earth’s magnetic field, creating an artificial radiation belt high above our planet’s surface.
The EMP had been predicted by scientists, but the Starfish Prime pulse was far larger than expected. And there was another effect that hadn’t been predicted accurately. Many of the electrons from the blast didn’t fall down into the Earth’s atmosphere, but instead lingered in space for months, trapped by Earth’s magnetic field, creating an artificial radiation belt high above our planet’s surface.
+++
NOW HOW ABOUT A CEP OF 450 MILES ?
Last edited by CONSO; 15th Aug 2017 at 02:32.
Barns,
How do you keep such a strike....with every weapon system known to the Western World....secret.....right up to the pulling of the trigger on the Strike?
You think you can get all the aircraft....tankers, bombers, fighters, surveillance, EW, Cruise Missiles, Rockets, Artillery, Helicopters into the air, fueled, staged, timed and coordinated....and the North Koreans not tweaking to their pending doom?
You reckon they mad bugger at the top of their Totem Pole might just order a strike of his own against South Korea, Japan, and some American target?
If you think we can wipe'em out with a first strike and suffer no damage of our own....I suggest you best stick to Game Station Strategy games.
How do you keep such a strike....with every weapon system known to the Western World....secret.....right up to the pulling of the trigger on the Strike?
You think you can get all the aircraft....tankers, bombers, fighters, surveillance, EW, Cruise Missiles, Rockets, Artillery, Helicopters into the air, fueled, staged, timed and coordinated....and the North Koreans not tweaking to their pending doom?
You reckon they mad bugger at the top of their Totem Pole might just order a strike of his own against South Korea, Japan, and some American target?
If you think we can wipe'em out with a first strike and suffer no damage of our own....I suggest you best stick to Game Station Strategy games.
Sounds like Kim has blinked.
North Korea's leader has delayed a decision on firing missiles towards the US territory of Guam while he watches the actions of the United States a little longer, the North's state media said on Tuesday, as Washington warned it would take out any missile heading for the Pacific island.
North Korea's leader has delayed a decision on firing missiles towards the US territory of Guam while he watches the actions of the United States a little longer, the North's state media said on Tuesday, as Washington warned it would take out any missile heading for the Pacific island.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Moscow region
Age: 65
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.....
We could equally add 70-130 cruise missile strikes, ten full MLRS salvos plus carrierborne strikes.
The MLRS on their own can completely blanket ten square km in a matter of seconds.
Add in the battery and counter battery support from SK and thats a big addition to the equation.
We could equally add 70-130 cruise missile strikes, ten full MLRS salvos plus carrierborne strikes.
The MLRS on their own can completely blanket ten square km in a matter of seconds.
Add in the battery and counter battery support from SK and thats a big addition to the equation.
NK do have MLRS, too. And even bigger:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KN-09_(MRL)
What if they strike first?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Blinked - but what will they do when the exercises go ahead?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...missile-attack
Kim Jong-un appeared on Tuesday to signal a pause in the escalating war of words with Donald Trump, saying he was prepared to watch US actions in the region “a little more” before ordering a planned launch of North Korean missiles aimed at the US territory of Guam. But he warned he could still order a missile launch aimed at the seas around Guam if there were further provocations from “foolish Yankees”.
“The United States, which was the first to bring numerous strategic nuclear equipment near us, should first make the right decision and show through actions if they wish to ease tensions on the Korean peninsula and prevent a dangerous military clash,” Kim was quoted as saying by the state KCNA news agency after an inspection of the army’s strategic forces..... But in a sign that Kim may be attempting to lower the diplomatic temperature, KCNA said he would continue to watch the “foolish and stupid conduct of the Yankees” before deciding whether to give an order for the launch.
Kim said North Korea would approve the launch of four intermediate-range Hwasong-12 ballistic missiles if the Americans “persist in their extremely dangerous, reckless actions on the Korean peninsula and its vicinity”, KCNA said. Official photos showed the North Korean leader, making his first public appearance for about two weeks, sitting at a table with a large map marked with a straight line that appeared to show the missiles’ intended flight path from north-east North Korea, over western Japan and out into the Pacific towards Guam. If the launches did proceed, Kim said he looked forward to “the most delightful historic moment when the Hwasong artillerymen will wring the windpipes of the Yankees and point daggers at their necks”.
The dispatch did not specify which US actions Kim considered “dangerous and reckless”, but US and South Korea are due to begin two weeks of joint military exercises from 21 August. While the US and South Korea insist the annual drills are defensive in nature, North Korea has long considered them a preparation for invasion and customarily uses the exercises to issue threats against Washington and its allies.......
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...missile-attack
Kim Jong-un appeared on Tuesday to signal a pause in the escalating war of words with Donald Trump, saying he was prepared to watch US actions in the region “a little more” before ordering a planned launch of North Korean missiles aimed at the US territory of Guam. But he warned he could still order a missile launch aimed at the seas around Guam if there were further provocations from “foolish Yankees”.
“The United States, which was the first to bring numerous strategic nuclear equipment near us, should first make the right decision and show through actions if they wish to ease tensions on the Korean peninsula and prevent a dangerous military clash,” Kim was quoted as saying by the state KCNA news agency after an inspection of the army’s strategic forces..... But in a sign that Kim may be attempting to lower the diplomatic temperature, KCNA said he would continue to watch the “foolish and stupid conduct of the Yankees” before deciding whether to give an order for the launch.
Kim said North Korea would approve the launch of four intermediate-range Hwasong-12 ballistic missiles if the Americans “persist in their extremely dangerous, reckless actions on the Korean peninsula and its vicinity”, KCNA said. Official photos showed the North Korean leader, making his first public appearance for about two weeks, sitting at a table with a large map marked with a straight line that appeared to show the missiles’ intended flight path from north-east North Korea, over western Japan and out into the Pacific towards Guam. If the launches did proceed, Kim said he looked forward to “the most delightful historic moment when the Hwasong artillerymen will wring the windpipes of the Yankees and point daggers at their necks”.
The dispatch did not specify which US actions Kim considered “dangerous and reckless”, but US and South Korea are due to begin two weeks of joint military exercises from 21 August. While the US and South Korea insist the annual drills are defensive in nature, North Korea has long considered them a preparation for invasion and customarily uses the exercises to issue threats against Washington and its allies.......
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 56
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASless
Thanks for the suggestion!
Im not sure why you felt the need to suggest it as I dont recall ever saying the US/SK wouldnt suffer casualties.
I also dont recall saying the US could wipe out all of NK forces.
I did specifically mention that MLRS could cover 10 square km, and I'll presume you already knew I was aware that NK covers an area larger than 10 square km.
Not that Ive ever played on a games station but if I ever do I'll see how playing compares to real life.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Im not sure why you felt the need to suggest it as I dont recall ever saying the US/SK wouldnt suffer casualties.
I also dont recall saying the US could wipe out all of NK forces.
I did specifically mention that MLRS could cover 10 square km, and I'll presume you already knew I was aware that NK covers an area larger than 10 square km.
Not that Ive ever played on a games station but if I ever do I'll see how playing compares to real life.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You still have to get it outside to be able to use it. Once outside it becomes traceable to MLRS.
Existing pictures of North Korean artillery show an amazing variety of muzzle flashes from identical guns. As they are still using 1950s ammunition I would be surprised if all of it was serviceable.
I can imagine a large proportion detonating in the barrel, falling short or very short or veering off in various directions.
Existing pictures of North Korean artillery show an amazing variety of muzzle flashes from identical guns. As they are still using 1950s ammunition I would be surprised if all of it was serviceable.
I can imagine a large proportion detonating in the barrel, falling short or very short or veering off in various directions.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Maine USA
Age: 82
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a thought; in every picture I see where Kim is smiling, everybody's smiling. What condition is their military really in, when reporting problems might cause Kim to frown?
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA STATE
Age: 78
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They fully understand the org chart AND that the chain of command is NOT used for pulling large trucks. . .
