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Some questions regarding Panavia Tornado parts including CSAS control unit

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Some questions regarding Panavia Tornado parts including CSAS control unit

Old 6th Apr 2017, 17:34
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Have you tried rocking the thrust levers to the side to get from max dry into reheat?
Well you can try.......

The HP cock latches are fixed at the rear of the throttle box. The relight switches are the round buttons on the back of each throttle lever.

the wing sweep lever and the flaps selector are mechanically linked so that lowering the flaps cannot happen unless the wings are fully forward
A combination of Swiss cheese and good old techie ingenuity still resulted in at least two flap to fuselage incidents at St Athan! There but for the grace of god....
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 21:18
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I have tried that, maybe I am not using enough force but I don't want to force it to much in case I break anything. There is some corrosion so it might be a bit weak in some places. I also need to construct some kind of rig which can support it allowing free movement of the throttles and wing sweep, as how it is resting at the moment the throttles can't be moved.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 21:19
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Doesn't rocking the thrust levers outboard engage the thrust reverse? Reheat is just the last sector of normal throttle movement.

EAP
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 21:30
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Left throttle outboard = lift dump, right throttle outboard = thrust reverse.

There is a bit of a gate between max dry and the reheat range, but they should go through without too much force.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 21:59
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Can't remember which but one of the front round switches on the Pilots' Demand Levers (often called throttles incorrectly - but remember this is a fly by wire jet) was 'Target Acquisistiion Enable' (TAE) for the Sidewinder. The rocker switch on the side was forward for front radio, backwards for rear radio and in for both...again IIRC. It's been a while and I need to sit in one to get reacquainted!

LJ

Last edited by Lima Juliet; 8th Apr 2017 at 18:37.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 21:59
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PS. You only rocked the throttles on the F4 to get reheat...
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 01:06
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So the snag must be with the linkages in the throttle box itself? I hope you find a solution and keep posting.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 09:01
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There's like a gate or indent between max dry and reheat. You need to put the throttles to max dry against the lock, then throttle back a bit, then push forwards again an they go through the lock.
The hole on the fin leading edge panel might be an air intake used for pressurising / purging the fin fuel tank

A combination of Swiss cheese and good old techie ingenuity still resulted in at least two flap to fuselage incidents at St Athan!
There's an electrical plug for a feedback system that stops the wingsweep at the angle selected on the throttle box. If you disconnected this electrical plug, applied hydraulics and then move the wingsweep lever, then the wings will keep on moving (it has no feedback telling the actuator when to stop) and if the flaps are down they will crush into the side of the fuselage. Just rear of the throttle box there's an electrical push button to select the size of the external fuel tanks, with "big jugs" fitted the wing sweep was limited.
25, 45 and 63 degrees rings a bell ?

Last edited by gr4techie; 7th Apr 2017 at 09:14.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 09:13
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There is an interlock that prevents the thrust levers being pushed into the reheat range with reverse thrust (levers rocked outboard) selected. It has been known for this not to fully retract when in the normal range and your example may be damaged or out of adjustment.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 19:50
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The interlock between the wing sweep lever and Flap lever in the throttle box was mechanical, the exception was the manoeuvre Switch, however the control mechanism covering that relied on the feedback shafts between the flap/slat drive unit and the wing sweep actuators to the High lift and Wing Sweep Control Unit, all instances of the Flaps going into the side of the fuselage were due to the FSDU to HLWSCU feedback shafts not being connected, so the electrical position indicator on the RH side of the HLWSCU would have no idea of the incorrect positions so the electrical/hydraulic interlock would also not engage. If memory serves the first one occurred at Cottesmore, the second at Marham (might be the other way around) and I don’t recall a St Athan one and both the flaps were down but the lever had been moved to the up position whilst power was off, with power supplied the wing sweep lever was able to be moved as the mechanical interlock was not engaged.

High lift devices A three-section slat is installed in the wing leading edge. Each slat section is equipped with two tracks which slide over rollers fitted to the wing leading edge. The three sections are mechanically linked to each other and are moved by four screw jacks. A four-section double-slotted flap is fitted along the full trailing edge of each wing. Each section consists of a main vane and a leading edge vane fixed to the main vane. The actuation system is comprised of eight screw jacks, two for each vane. The actuation system is driven by units located in the centre fuselage, which is powered by four hydraulic motors – two motors driving the flap system and two driving the slat system. Hydraulic power is supplied by both hydraulics systems, each powering one slat and one flap motor. When a hydraulic failure occurs, the motors powered by the functioning system are still able to drive both flaps and slats to their full travel. As long as the wings are selected fully forward, the flaps lever may be moved to any of its three positions (UP, MID and DOWN). In addition to the UP, MID and DOWN positions, the flaps and slats can be extended to a manoeuvre position. With the wings swept to 25° the flaps can be extended to 7° and the slats to 11°. With the wings swept to 45° the slats can be extended to 11°, whilst the flaps remain retracted. The manoeuvre flaps and slats are selected by operation of the combined airbrakes/ manoeuvre, flap/slat switch
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 20:01
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The leading edge of the fin was the HF-SSB antenna that connect the HF feed to the airframe ( I would need to see a photo to confirm). The photo of the CSAS is standard together with the AFDS (autopilot).
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 18:43
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In fact I remember now, the 'Target Acquisistiion Enable' (TAE) was the red button on the Stick Top on the top left next to the trim and the front right button on the throttle was to slave the Sidewinder head to the RADAR.



At the rear of the throttles are the relight switches - endless fun making these clacker when a sooty had their head down the intake!! If it has a toggle switch outboard of the left throttle - known as the "pinkie switch" because you operated it with your little finger then that was for chaff/flare.

LJ
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 00:32
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We'd just put loads of new FTI SUMS stuff on an ADV at Conningsby and it swept the wings with flaps down- didn't fly for years

Leon, that stick's never been in an aircraft


Jayviator, have you got an NHC?
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 01:00
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Just a thought, looking at some of the screws/bolts on the throttle box there seems to be quite a bit of rust and corrosion. If any moisture has made it down into the gaps (which I think it may well have done) then you might be looking at seized components. Something like GT-85 or WD-40 squirted in and left to soak overnight might free things up or if that doesnt work a strip down and some heat applied may free everything up. As I said, just a thought.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 19:53
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all instances of the Flaps going into the side of the fuselage were due to the FSDU to HLWSCU feedback shafts not being connected
Exactly what happened at Saints (and Coningsby by the sounds of it!)

electrical position indicator on the RH side of the HLWSCU
E-box?
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 20:09
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Leon, I stand to be corrected but when I went through the OCU I think the throttles were referred to as Pilot Demand Transmitters (PDTs). Clearly throttles was a much more user friendly term.


Too many years on Batemans may have interfered with the neurones.


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Old 10th Apr 2017, 06:58
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2Planks, I'm with you. I remember us former F4 mates being told this in groundschool and collectively going "say whaaaaaat?"
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 14:25
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The GR1 aircraft documents called them throttles; called the stick a stick too. Presumably this was known as Pilot Demand Left/Right/Up/Down Transmitters on the F3?

Stick fully aft and into spin....
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 18:34
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Even worse on the Tiff, where the control column is referred to as the SSICA, short for Stick Sensor Interface Control Assembly.......
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 19:02
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2planks/57mm

You may be right. I seem to remember my groundschool instructors were G+10, T+8, Gordon Allen and Gay Horning and I'm sure they called them Pilots' Demand Levers or PDLs for short. This was the rig that they used to teach us with:



These are now in the Tattershall Thorpe - Thorpe Camp Visitors' Centre: http://thorpecamp.wixsite.com/visitorscentre

Well worth a visit for Tornado F3 memorabilia and other Coningsby/Woodhall Spa stuff.

LJ
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