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HMS Hermes Finally Sails Away

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HMS Hermes Finally Sails Away

Old 15th Mar 2017, 14:44
  #21 (permalink)  
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Nutty,and often after a refit before sale.
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Old 15th Mar 2017, 14:47
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It does make one wonder though why we sell on ships supposedly past their sell by date, that go onto serve another 30 years of front line service in another man's navy, it makes you wonder if we really are getting value for money from some of our assets.
In think the UK got her money out of the Hermes....


As for serving on with other nations for many more years, I think there is some distinction between serving in front line service with a top tier Navy and "lingering" on in a second or third life- even it is regarded as "front line". Most US and UK Navy ships seem to have been run quite hard while in main service, but by and large got some level of support and upgrades during their active service. After 30 or so years they are tired. As they aged they needed more care and in some cases they got it- but in many cases the level of support drops off and the new owner does enough to keep them running, but not really the same level of support- and they are really not really top tier assets any more. While India did well with keeping the ex-Hermes going (and the earlier Virant), I think most analysts would agree that these ships were no longer top assets on the world stage, even if they were the flagship of the Nation. Several nations wanted the status of being a carrier nation, but in reality the ships got few underway days- and some lingered on well past their prime. Many passed down warships see far fewer steaming hours than they did in prior lives. Maintaining aging warships properly requires massive investments. Much like keeping a 20+ plus year old car in top condition. Sometimes buying new is the way to go, but for many nations buying used is all they can afford. Manning is another issue. It takes a large number of sailors to keep an aging steam powered ship running.


Please this is no slight on the professional sailors from India or any other nation- just a comment that there are some differences and distinctions between "front line" service.


The 25 de Mayo was in "front line" service decades after the Majestic's had been retired/sold off by the UK.
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Old 15th Mar 2017, 15:34
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It does make one wonder though why we sell on ships supposedly past their sell by date, that go onto serve another 30 years of front line service in another man's navy, it makes you wonder if we really are getting value for money from some of our assets.

It's also worth remembering that sometimes the cost (to the UK) of operating those assets is the reason for replacing with newer assets.


Take manning - Hermes had a ships complement (ex airgroup) north of 1000 - and was steam powered. She was replaced by the Ark (V) which only needed 700 or so to run her and was powered by GTs in common with most of the rest of the fleet.


We binned the T22B2s because they needed 250-odd crew instead of the 190 or so on the T23.


I'd love to say we get equivalent numbers of newer platforms as a result, but we don't. But at least we can afford to operate (mostly...) the ones we've got.
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Old 15th Mar 2017, 19:46
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Mercantlan,

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Old 26th Aug 2020, 06:49
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https://ahmedabadmirror.indiatimes.c...w/77711135.cms

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Old 26th Aug 2020, 07:01
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Always remember that Hermes joke...
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 09:21
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Originally Posted by Marcantilan View Post
[img]Has Argentina claimed the kill yet ? Sorry - did I say that out loud[/img]

That was very interesting. A friend of mine is just writing a book about HMS Hermes and the desinformation war. It looks like that, on certain point, the Argentine Air Force was pretty convinced Hermes was hit.

In fact, even the FCO challenged the MoD asking if that was true!

But...



Regards!
Hey Merc are you aware we had your codes? It was in a recent magazine I read..

see

https://www.theregister.com/2020/05/...falklands_war/
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Old 26th Aug 2020, 18:39
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Originally Posted by Marcantilan View Post
[img]Has Argentina claimed the kill yet ? Sorry - did I say that out loud[/img]

That was very interesting. A friend of mine is just writing a book about HMS Hermes and the desinformation war. It looks like that, on certain point, the Argentine Air Force was pretty convinced Hermes was hit.

In fact, even the FCO challenged the MoD asking if that was true!

But...



Regards!
If memory serves, this picture shows the death of the First Argentine pilot killed by the British and what was told to the next of kin. Did the true story involve a Pucara....Yes. Did it involve HMS Hermes....Yes. Did the two platforms get a sighting of each other....Humm NO they were about 100 miles apart at least and both were on the surface. However a SHAR from Hermes did drop a CBU on said Pucara as it was starting engines during the first air attack on Goose Green Airfield on 1st May 82. Killed the Pilot and a number of ground crew.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 12:46
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Hello NutLoose,

Yes I was aware! In fact, I was interviewed early this year (when Coronavirus was only a Chinese problem...those times...) by Swiss TV about it. But, I had a terrible haircut at the time, so I will not share the interview with you.

If you check ARG and UK once secret documents, you could see ARG signals sent and, less than 24 hours later, the same signal translated and analyzed by some British down south. For example, submarine ARA Santa Fe made a SITREP, was intercepted by HMS Endurance, sent to Northwood and then the same SITREP was received by HMS Conqueror.

ARG Navy replaced most Crypto AG equipment twenty years ago (after the war, it was clear the comms were not secure at all...and Ted Rowlands helped on that), but some machines still remains in use.

Regards!
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 19:11
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Thanks

..........
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 19:19
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
It does make one wonder though why we sell on ships supposedly past their sell by date, that go onto serve another 30 years of front line service in another man's navy, it makes you wonder if we really are getting value for money from some of our assets.
A number of C130 Hercules seem to have also gone the same way.
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 06:50
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Caught on the news last night that Hermes is now beached at the breakers and 5% already removed, will take a year to go...
Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money.
Anyone know of at least the ships bell to be saved?
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 07:41
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"Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money."

Unfortunately the number of historic ships and aircraft that people would like to save far outstrips the ability to raise cash to buy them , and then to keep them................ When you think about there is no Stirling, Wellington. Whitley, Halifax, Typhoon, Tempest still flying - astonishing
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 10:50
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Thought there was a Wimpey at Brooklands and a Halifax oop' North in Yorkshire?
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 10:53
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Originally Posted by Kiltrash View Post
Caught on the news last night that Hermes is now beached at the breakers and 5% already removed, will take a year to go...
Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money.
Anyone know of at least the ships bell to be saved?
I would have thought the bell with 'Hermes' on was probably saved when she was sold to India? So probably in one of the RN museum collections if not on actual display.
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 11:09
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Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/hope...antled-2338614
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 11:22
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Originally Posted by aw ditor View Post
Thought there was a Wimpey at Brooklands and a Halifax oop' North in Yorkshire?
There's a Halifax at Elvington, but it's nowhere near / never going to fly.
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 12:01
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 12:03
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Old 16th Dec 2020, 12:04
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