HMS Hermes Finally Sails Away
It does make one wonder though why we sell on ships supposedly past their sell by date, that go onto serve another 30 years of front line service in another man's navy, it makes you wonder if we really are getting value for money from some of our assets.
As for serving on with other nations for many more years, I think there is some distinction between serving in front line service with a top tier Navy and "lingering" on in a second or third life- even it is regarded as "front line". Most US and UK Navy ships seem to have been run quite hard while in main service, but by and large got some level of support and upgrades during their active service. After 30 or so years they are tired. As they aged they needed more care and in some cases they got it- but in many cases the level of support drops off and the new owner does enough to keep them running, but not really the same level of support- and they are really not really top tier assets any more. While India did well with keeping the ex-Hermes going (and the earlier Virant), I think most analysts would agree that these ships were no longer top assets on the world stage, even if they were the flagship of the Nation. Several nations wanted the status of being a carrier nation, but in reality the ships got few underway days- and some lingered on well past their prime. Many passed down warships see far fewer steaming hours than they did in prior lives. Maintaining aging warships properly requires massive investments. Much like keeping a 20+ plus year old car in top condition. Sometimes buying new is the way to go, but for many nations buying used is all they can afford. Manning is another issue. It takes a large number of sailors to keep an aging steam powered ship running.
Please this is no slight on the professional sailors from India or any other nation- just a comment that there are some differences and distinctions between "front line" service.
The 25 de Mayo was in "front line" service decades after the Majestic's had been retired/sold off by the UK.
It does make one wonder though why we sell on ships supposedly past their sell by date, that go onto serve another 30 years of front line service in another man's navy, it makes you wonder if we really are getting value for money from some of our assets.
It's also worth remembering that sometimes the cost (to the UK) of operating those assets is the reason for replacing with newer assets.
Take manning - Hermes had a ships complement (ex airgroup) north of 1000 - and was steam powered. She was replaced by the Ark (V) which only needed 700 or so to run her and was powered by GTs in common with most of the rest of the fleet.
We binned the T22B2s because they needed 250-odd crew instead of the 190 or so on the T23.
I'd love to say we get equivalent numbers of newer platforms as a result, but we don't. But at least we can afford to operate (mostly...) the ones we've got.
Always remember that Hermes joke...
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[img]Has Argentina claimed the kill yet ? Sorry - did I say that out loud[/img]
That was very interesting. A friend of mine is just writing a book about HMS Hermes and the desinformation war. It looks like that, on certain point, the Argentine Air Force was pretty convinced Hermes was hit.
In fact, even the FCO challenged the MoD asking if that was true!
But...
Regards!
That was very interesting. A friend of mine is just writing a book about HMS Hermes and the desinformation war. It looks like that, on certain point, the Argentine Air Force was pretty convinced Hermes was hit.
In fact, even the FCO challenged the MoD asking if that was true!
But...
Regards!
see
https://www.theregister.com/2020/05/...falklands_war/
[img]Has Argentina claimed the kill yet ? Sorry - did I say that out loud[/img]
That was very interesting. A friend of mine is just writing a book about HMS Hermes and the desinformation war. It looks like that, on certain point, the Argentine Air Force was pretty convinced Hermes was hit.
In fact, even the FCO challenged the MoD asking if that was true!
But...
Regards!
That was very interesting. A friend of mine is just writing a book about HMS Hermes and the desinformation war. It looks like that, on certain point, the Argentine Air Force was pretty convinced Hermes was hit.
In fact, even the FCO challenged the MoD asking if that was true!
But...
Regards!
Hello NutLoose,
Yes I was aware! In fact, I was interviewed early this year (when Coronavirus was only a Chinese problem...those times...) by Swiss TV about it. But, I had a terrible haircut at the time, so I will not share the interview with you.
If you check ARG and UK once secret documents, you could see ARG signals sent and, less than 24 hours later, the same signal translated and analyzed by some British down south. For example, submarine ARA Santa Fe made a SITREP, was intercepted by HMS Endurance, sent to Northwood and then the same SITREP was received by HMS Conqueror.
ARG Navy replaced most Crypto AG equipment twenty years ago (after the war, it was clear the comms were not secure at all...and Ted Rowlands helped on that), but some machines still remains in use.
Regards!
Yes I was aware! In fact, I was interviewed early this year (when Coronavirus was only a Chinese problem...those times...) by Swiss TV about it. But, I had a terrible haircut at the time, so I will not share the interview with you.
If you check ARG and UK once secret documents, you could see ARG signals sent and, less than 24 hours later, the same signal translated and analyzed by some British down south. For example, submarine ARA Santa Fe made a SITREP, was intercepted by HMS Endurance, sent to Northwood and then the same SITREP was received by HMS Conqueror.
ARG Navy replaced most Crypto AG equipment twenty years ago (after the war, it was clear the comms were not secure at all...and Ted Rowlands helped on that), but some machines still remains in use.
Regards!
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Thanks 
..........
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Caught on the news last night that Hermes is now beached at the breakers and 5% already removed, will take a year to go...
Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money.
Anyone know of at least the ships bell to be saved?
Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money.
Anyone know of at least the ships bell to be saved?
"Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money."
Unfortunately the number of historic ships and aircraft that people would like to save far outstrips the ability to raise cash to buy them , and then to keep them................ When you think about there is no Stirling, Wellington. Whitley, Halifax, Typhoon, Tempest still flying - astonishing
Unfortunately the number of historic ships and aircraft that people would like to save far outstrips the ability to raise cash to buy them , and then to keep them................ When you think about there is no Stirling, Wellington. Whitley, Halifax, Typhoon, Tempest still flying - astonishing
I would have thought the bell with 'Hermes' on was probably saved when she was sold to India? So probably in one of the RN museum collections if not on actual display.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Sad she could not be saved somewhere. Know it would cost loads of money.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,892
Received 2,830 Likes
on
1,208 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,892
Received 2,830 Likes
on
1,208 Posts