Theresa May signs £100m fighter jet deal with Turkey's Erdoğan
The Turkish Air Force without a doubt see this as a cheaper option to F35 and one which they can own outright and therefore export. They have confirmed a twin-engines design. Current CDS Sir Stu Peach lobbied heavily on this when he was vice Chief.
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 31st Jan 2017 at 14:08.
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"We will see airline pilots replaced first..."? Considering military pilots in some roles have already been replaced, that's already a dodgy prediction. Being as the travelling public have yet to accept driverless trains, this may be some way down the line.
Artists impressions look good. Can we have some?
Artists impressions look good. Can we have some?
I see driverless cars on a daily basis here in Phoenix, and do you think those monorail trains at the airport have drivers? It's closer than you think.
But FJ's will be last - I do believe that.
But FJ's will be last - I do believe that.
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Well go on believing that but many FJ roles have been undertaken by RPAS for some years now...Quite a lot of them crash, too. If every pranged Reaper had had 300 people on board there'd be some explaining to do!
"...not hanging nukes on them"??. Nukes have been deployed mainly in unmanned missiles (Dr Strangelove aside) since the 60's
"...not hanging nukes on them"??. Nukes have been deployed mainly in unmanned missiles (Dr Strangelove aside) since the 60's
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Being as the travelling public have yet to accept driverless trains, this may be some way down the line.
Isn't the problem with the current generation of UAVs that they can lose signal if banked too steeply, and that sometimes the pilots lose situational awareness?
Future UAVs would be more or less autonomous and free to make their own decisions within a set of parameters. This is a major topic of concern for Western countries.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.defensenews.com/industry...eals-interest/
ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey’s program for the design, development and production of the country’s first indigenous fighter jet gained pace late in April when two local prime contractors joined forces to outline a production scheme for critical parts. Meanwhile, in a surprise move, a top Russian aerospace concern expressed interest in developing an engine to power the TF-X, the Turkish fighter aircraft in the making......
Turkish procurement officials have confirmed Russian interest in a plan for the development of an engine that would power the TF-X. “There is a Russian interest in this regard, but it is too premature to say if the idea would gain further ground,” an official said. A Turkish diplomat said Turkey’s political ties with Russia were “excellent,” adding that the current political ties paved the way for deeper military and procurement cooperation......
Viktor Kladov, director of international cooperation and regional policies at Rostec, a Russian defense conglomerate, told press at the Eurasia Airshow in Antalya, Turkey, that his company would prepare a proposal for cooperation with Turkey on aircraft engines. “We could supply an engine,” he said......
Turkey’s ambitious TF-X program currently awaits a critical presidential endorsement. After formal go-ahead from President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the program would race ahead, procurement officials say. The TF-X and other major indigenous development programs are Erdogan’s pet projects. The next critical stage will be a Turkish decision to choose an engine for the TF-X.......
ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey’s program for the design, development and production of the country’s first indigenous fighter jet gained pace late in April when two local prime contractors joined forces to outline a production scheme for critical parts. Meanwhile, in a surprise move, a top Russian aerospace concern expressed interest in developing an engine to power the TF-X, the Turkish fighter aircraft in the making......
Turkish procurement officials have confirmed Russian interest in a plan for the development of an engine that would power the TF-X. “There is a Russian interest in this regard, but it is too premature to say if the idea would gain further ground,” an official said. A Turkish diplomat said Turkey’s political ties with Russia were “excellent,” adding that the current political ties paved the way for deeper military and procurement cooperation......
Viktor Kladov, director of international cooperation and regional policies at Rostec, a Russian defense conglomerate, told press at the Eurasia Airshow in Antalya, Turkey, that his company would prepare a proposal for cooperation with Turkey on aircraft engines. “We could supply an engine,” he said......
Turkey’s ambitious TF-X program currently awaits a critical presidential endorsement. After formal go-ahead from President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the program would race ahead, procurement officials say. The TF-X and other major indigenous development programs are Erdogan’s pet projects. The next critical stage will be a Turkish decision to choose an engine for the TF-X.......
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Turkey may very well be cognisant of the increasing sentiment that the F-35 sale to Turkey is not a good idea for a number of reasons. If this were to be the case an indigenous product would be a useful fall back.
Turkeys recent purchase of the Russian missile system did not go down well either with NATO or the US. The blocking of F-35’s to Turkey would certainly create a big problem problem, but it has already been notable by the lack of information for a while now, however one that may well have been in part anticipated. No crystal ball was needed to see, it is one that has been growing quietly for a while now.
There have been cancellations before of major military contracts, and country to country collaborations, US F16’s to Pakistan, India and the PAK FA T-50, Russia’s French Mistral ships, and while they undoubtedly can create major problems they do happen.
LM had indicated some time earlier that Turkey was not indispensable to the program, and no doubt has already been studying alternatives. The US military and State Department will also have have been examining the whole situation carefully. Erdogan has been quite strident over the last couple of years and Turkey’s commitment to NATO questioned.
While it is indisputable that Turkey is geopolitically important it is also idisputable that there has been a drift in the direction of both Russia and China, and it’s nomination as the leader of the Islamic Military Alliance.
Even recently there has been friction.
The U.S. alliance in Syria is falling apart as Turkey wages its own war on “terror”
Turkey’s choice of the Russian Missile system is another irritant and potential sticking point.
Turkey Dismisses U.S. Warning Against Buying Russian Missile System
If Turkey buys the Russian S-400 missile system, it can't be allowed to buy the F-35 fighter jet
The sale of F-14’s to Iran, and the Shah’s quickly following ejection remains as a historical reminder that things can go very sour very fast.
Turkeys recent purchase of the Russian missile system did not go down well either with NATO or the US. The blocking of F-35’s to Turkey would certainly create a big problem problem, but it has already been notable by the lack of information for a while now, however one that may well have been in part anticipated. No crystal ball was needed to see, it is one that has been growing quietly for a while now.
There have been cancellations before of major military contracts, and country to country collaborations, US F16’s to Pakistan, India and the PAK FA T-50, Russia’s French Mistral ships, and while they undoubtedly can create major problems they do happen.
LM had indicated some time earlier that Turkey was not indispensable to the program, and no doubt has already been studying alternatives. The US military and State Department will also have have been examining the whole situation carefully. Erdogan has been quite strident over the last couple of years and Turkey’s commitment to NATO questioned.
While it is indisputable that Turkey is geopolitically important it is also idisputable that there has been a drift in the direction of both Russia and China, and it’s nomination as the leader of the Islamic Military Alliance.
Even recently there has been friction.
The U.S. alliance in Syria is falling apart as Turkey wages its own war on “terror”
Turkey’s choice of the Russian Missile system is another irritant and potential sticking point.
Turkey Dismisses U.S. Warning Against Buying Russian Missile System
If Turkey buys the Russian S-400 missile system, it can't be allowed to buy the F-35 fighter jet
The sale of F-14’s to Iran, and the Shah’s quickly following ejection remains as a historical reminder that things can go very sour very fast.
This is Turkish brinksmanship and Russian meddling. The key to TFX is IP and technology transfer, which the Russians are unlikely to share with a NATO member. RR negotiations are Government-backed and I sense that this will co e to a head within 2 weeks. If Turkey was to bring Russia into the deal, out goes BAES and HMG technology transfer. And that means end of TFX
Surely we wouldn't give up our technology to a dodgy customer for a mere pittance would we?
I mean, it's not like we have done it before, is it?
and anyway, when St Jezza gets in they will get it for free.
��
I mean, it's not like we have done it before, is it?
and anyway, when St Jezza gets in they will get it for free.
��
I would still rather we sold Erdogen and his cronies nothing more lethal than a very blunt penknife. Indeed I would not want to see any support for his regime, and it is time tourists realised their cash is propping up his regime and went elsewhere
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A Russian airframe with UK engines
We could call the engine a Meme and the resultant aircraft a Faggot (Maggot for the maritime version)..
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Turkey may very well be cognisant of the increasing sentiment that the F-35 sale to Turkey is not a good idea for a number of reasons. If this were to be the case an indigenous product would be a useful fall back.
Turkeys recent purchase of the Russian missile system did not go down well either with NATO or the US. The blocking of F-35’s to Turkey would certainly create a big problem problem, but it has already been notable by the lack of information for a while now, however one that may well have been in part anticipated. No crystal ball was needed to see, it is one that has been growing quietly for a while now.
There have been cancellations before of major military contracts, and country to country collaborations, US F16’s to Pakistan, India and the PAK FA T-50, Russia’s French Mistral ships, and while they undoubtedly can create major problems they do happen.
LM had indicated some time earlier that Turkey was not indispensable to the program, and no doubt has already been studying alternatives. The US military and State Department will also have have been examining the whole situation carefully. Erdogan has been quite strident over the last couple of years and Turkey’s commitment to NATO questioned.
While it is indisputable that Turkey is geopolitically important it is also idisputable that there has been a drift in the direction of both Russia and China, and it’s nomination as the leader of the Islamic Military Alliance.
Even recently there has been friction.
The U.S. alliance in Syria is falling apart as Turkey wages its own war on “terror”
Turkey’s choice of the Russian Missile system is another irritant and potential sticking point.
Turkey Dismisses U.S. Warning Against Buying Russian Missile System
If Turkey buys the Russian S-400 missile system, it can't be allowed to buy the F-35 fighter jet
The sale of F-14’s to Iran, and the Shah’s quickly following ejection remains as a historical reminder that things can go very sour very fast.
Turkeys recent purchase of the Russian missile system did not go down well either with NATO or the US. The blocking of F-35’s to Turkey would certainly create a big problem problem, but it has already been notable by the lack of information for a while now, however one that may well have been in part anticipated. No crystal ball was needed to see, it is one that has been growing quietly for a while now.
There have been cancellations before of major military contracts, and country to country collaborations, US F16’s to Pakistan, India and the PAK FA T-50, Russia’s French Mistral ships, and while they undoubtedly can create major problems they do happen.
LM had indicated some time earlier that Turkey was not indispensable to the program, and no doubt has already been studying alternatives. The US military and State Department will also have have been examining the whole situation carefully. Erdogan has been quite strident over the last couple of years and Turkey’s commitment to NATO questioned.
While it is indisputable that Turkey is geopolitically important it is also idisputable that there has been a drift in the direction of both Russia and China, and it’s nomination as the leader of the Islamic Military Alliance.
Even recently there has been friction.
The U.S. alliance in Syria is falling apart as Turkey wages its own war on “terror”
Turkey’s choice of the Russian Missile system is another irritant and potential sticking point.
Turkey Dismisses U.S. Warning Against Buying Russian Missile System
If Turkey buys the Russian S-400 missile system, it can't be allowed to buy the F-35 fighter jet
The sale of F-14’s to Iran, and the Shah’s quickly following ejection remains as a historical reminder that things can go very sour very fast.
It actually says..
U.S. MILITARY ALLIANCE IN SYRIA COULD FALL APART AS TURKEY FIGHTS ITS OWN WAR ON ‘TERROR’
A small but important detail.
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Another small detail, for you...I didn’t write the link, you will have to take that point up with the authors of that link.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2020...r-jet-program/
Temel Kotil, CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries, said he is now awaiting Malaysia’s reply. Last year, TAI signed a memorandum of understanding with the Asian nation for the co-production of TF-X composites. TAI is also considering Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kazakhstan as potential partners or buyers of the future fighter jet. “[TF-X] will be the first big fighter jet of the Muslims,” Kotil said. “Building the aircraft first and then selling it is a modality. But we think it’s better if we take in partners at this stage.".....
Meanwhile, the Turkish government is keen to revive talks with British company Rolls-Royce for the design and production of the TF-X. Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said in December that the government wants to move forward with its planned cooperation with Britain for the production of the aircraft. But Turkey must first select an engine for the TF-X and then finalize the aircraft’s full design — a process that has lagged behind schedule. A £100 million (U.S. $131 million) deal between Rolls-Royce and Turkish manufacturer Kale Group was effectively put on hold amid uncertainties over technology transfer.
In October 2016, Rolls-Royce offered a joint production partnership to Turkey to power the country’s planned platforms. The offer involved potential sales to third parties and a production unit in Turkey to manufacture engines for the TF-X as well as helicopters, tanks and missiles. A year before that, in October 2015, a memorandum of understanding was signed between Turkey and Rolls-Royce for technological know-how and a production unit. Under the plan, Rolls-Royce would launch an advanced manufacturing and technology center in Turkey ― the company’s eighth such unit worldwide.
Also in 2017, BAE Systems and TAI signed a $125 million heads of agreement to collaborate on the first development phase of the TF-X.
Turkey’s aerospace and procurement officials now aim to fly the TF-X in the 2025-2026 time frame, despite an original target of 2023.
Turkey invites Malaysia to join its TF-X future fighter jet program
ANKARA, Turkey — A state-owned Turkish company as invited Malaysia to join the country’s indigenous fighter program, the TF-X, following Ankara’s suspension from the U.S.-led F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program.Temel Kotil, CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries, said he is now awaiting Malaysia’s reply. Last year, TAI signed a memorandum of understanding with the Asian nation for the co-production of TF-X composites. TAI is also considering Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kazakhstan as potential partners or buyers of the future fighter jet. “[TF-X] will be the first big fighter jet of the Muslims,” Kotil said. “Building the aircraft first and then selling it is a modality. But we think it’s better if we take in partners at this stage.".....
Meanwhile, the Turkish government is keen to revive talks with British company Rolls-Royce for the design and production of the TF-X. Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said in December that the government wants to move forward with its planned cooperation with Britain for the production of the aircraft. But Turkey must first select an engine for the TF-X and then finalize the aircraft’s full design — a process that has lagged behind schedule. A £100 million (U.S. $131 million) deal between Rolls-Royce and Turkish manufacturer Kale Group was effectively put on hold amid uncertainties over technology transfer.
In October 2016, Rolls-Royce offered a joint production partnership to Turkey to power the country’s planned platforms. The offer involved potential sales to third parties and a production unit in Turkey to manufacture engines for the TF-X as well as helicopters, tanks and missiles. A year before that, in October 2015, a memorandum of understanding was signed between Turkey and Rolls-Royce for technological know-how and a production unit. Under the plan, Rolls-Royce would launch an advanced manufacturing and technology center in Turkey ― the company’s eighth such unit worldwide.
Also in 2017, BAE Systems and TAI signed a $125 million heads of agreement to collaborate on the first development phase of the TF-X.
Turkey’s aerospace and procurement officials now aim to fly the TF-X in the 2025-2026 time frame, despite an original target of 2023.
Actually, I thought Theresa May was quite sexy in a weird sort of way but this isn't the time to say that.
(Running naked through hayfields, etc)
Sorry.
I'll leave you to your discussions...
(Running naked through hayfields, etc)
Sorry.
I'll leave you to your discussions...
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2020...r-jet-program/
Temel Kotil, CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries, said he is now awaiting Malaysia’s reply. Last year, TAI signed a memorandum of understanding with the Asian nation for the co-production of TF-X composites. TAI is also considering Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kazakhstan as potential partners or buyers of the future fighter jet. “[TF-X] will be the first big fighter jet of the Muslims,” Kotil said. “Building the aircraft first and then selling it is a modality. But we think it’s better if we take in partners at this stage.".....
Meanwhile, the Turkish government is keen to revive talks with British company Rolls-Royce for the design and production of the TF-X. Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said in December that the government wants to move forward with its planned cooperation with Britain for the production of the aircraft. But Turkey must first select an engine for the TF-X and then finalize the aircraft’s full design — a process that has lagged behind schedule. A £100 million (U.S. $131 million) deal between Rolls-Royce and Turkish manufacturer Kale Group was effectively put on hold amid uncertainties over technology transfer.
In October 2016, Rolls-Royce offered a joint production partnership to Turkey to power the country’s planned platforms. The offer involved potential sales to third parties and a production unit in Turkey to manufacture engines for the TF-X as well as helicopters, tanks and missiles. A year before that, in October 2015, a memorandum of understanding was signed between Turkey and Rolls-Royce for technological know-how and a production unit. Under the plan, Rolls-Royce would launch an advanced manufacturing and technology center in Turkey ― the company’s eighth such unit worldwide.
Also in 2017, BAE Systems and TAI signed a $125 million heads of agreement to collaborate on the first development phase of the TF-X.
Turkey’s aerospace and procurement officials now aim to fly the TF-X in the 2025-2026 time frame, despite an original target of 2023.
Turkey invites Malaysia to join its TF-X future fighter jet program
ANKARA, Turkey — A state-owned Turkish company as invited Malaysia to join the country’s indigenous fighter program, the TF-X, following Ankara’s suspension from the U.S.-led F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program.Temel Kotil, CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries, said he is now awaiting Malaysia’s reply. Last year, TAI signed a memorandum of understanding with the Asian nation for the co-production of TF-X composites. TAI is also considering Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kazakhstan as potential partners or buyers of the future fighter jet. “[TF-X] will be the first big fighter jet of the Muslims,” Kotil said. “Building the aircraft first and then selling it is a modality. But we think it’s better if we take in partners at this stage.".....
Meanwhile, the Turkish government is keen to revive talks with British company Rolls-Royce for the design and production of the TF-X. Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said in December that the government wants to move forward with its planned cooperation with Britain for the production of the aircraft. But Turkey must first select an engine for the TF-X and then finalize the aircraft’s full design — a process that has lagged behind schedule. A £100 million (U.S. $131 million) deal between Rolls-Royce and Turkish manufacturer Kale Group was effectively put on hold amid uncertainties over technology transfer.
In October 2016, Rolls-Royce offered a joint production partnership to Turkey to power the country’s planned platforms. The offer involved potential sales to third parties and a production unit in Turkey to manufacture engines for the TF-X as well as helicopters, tanks and missiles. A year before that, in October 2015, a memorandum of understanding was signed between Turkey and Rolls-Royce for technological know-how and a production unit. Under the plan, Rolls-Royce would launch an advanced manufacturing and technology center in Turkey ― the company’s eighth such unit worldwide.
Also in 2017, BAE Systems and TAI signed a $125 million heads of agreement to collaborate on the first development phase of the TF-X.
Turkey’s aerospace and procurement officials now aim to fly the TF-X in the 2025-2026 time frame, despite an original target of 2023.
Temel Kotil - CEO/TAI was the architect of the massive expansion of Turkish Airlines - now one of the world's largest air operators (and good to travel with, as well).