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Rebirth of Conscription

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Rebirth of Conscription

Old 22nd Jan 2017, 18:37
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Do we still need Bevin Boys for those who don't make the grade?
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 18:56
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Not quite sure I understand the model being proposed. It sounds to be one that is selective, and only passable by those who are willing and able. It's not mass-conscription in the conventional sense.

Surely we already have something similar in the UK with the Reserves; who also take people in their 50s, particularly if you have some useful military experience.

Sweden has a population of only 9.5m; and its armed forces consist of approx 20k soldiers; 20k guards and 10 k reservists (ages 16 -70). I'm not surprised that they want to inculcate more military skills in their population with Putin on the prowl.

Swedish towns told to 'make preparations regarding the threat of war and conflict' with Russia
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 20:23
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I wasn't thinking about keeping them at home. After training they could be held in a secure facility. The nearest that comes to mind for me would be Colchester Garrison. Perhaps I should have said "Grandad's Army" as I think there would be more response from the mature elements of the population. Given a chance, I'd be there like a shot. Yes, I know, seventy, but I can be a Walt, can't I?
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 21:11
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Going back in history, Do others remember as officer cadets having their own SMLE padlocked to their bed in their accommodation? The bolts were kept in the armoury but the rifles in unguarded seco huts bare yards from an unguarded gate to the station?

Or at school? We had an armoury with about 250 SMLE from WW1 and later WW2 and also some new ones. We also had a couple of dozen Bren. In the attic the ammunition was stored above a dormitory - went in once - 25,000 rounds of .303 ball were stored there in ammo boxes.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 23:19
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It's a shame we can't nominate people for it


Trouble is I wouldn't want to foist some of the scroat's I know on them.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 03:06
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Conscription implies compulsory service. Nothing voluntary about it. If your name comes out of the hat - you're in, short of having a serious certifiable disability. (or a near relative with connections)

As for "Scroats", the services have a great record of re-engineering them into better members of society. Bring it on I say, and keep the liberal lefties in the dark.

When "Our Reggy" next door went home AWOL during Suez, the MP's arrived on a motorbike and sidecar combo. His mother said, "He's under the kitchen table - you can have him - he been better since he's been in the Army"

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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 07:06
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I'd make it an option for university funding both pre and post attendance, in the same way the US pay for college under the GI Bill - just expand the current bursary schemes into a much wider range of skills and to a wider range of ranks to cover 2/3 years as a conscript and have your student debt forgiven.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/m...nsorship-u.pdf
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 09:22
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PN -we must have trained at the same place and attended similar schools. Did you have Primary glider as well|?
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 10:44
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Actually in the 80's the Home Service Force (HSF) existed in UK as part of the TA.

Mostly old soldiers or Ex-Cadet forces. Had a reduced training liability and a reduced call out liability (UK only I seem to recall), lower pay rate and reduced training bounty. Their role was to act as Guard forces for home based installations to release regular troops, reservists and TA for wider use. No heavy weapons - just small arms.

Very successful with most TA Infantry Battalions having 1 Company as part of their ORBAT (approx. 120 men/women split as 5 platoons).

of course it was scrapped as a cost savings measure when the TA reorganized in the early 90's. Could easily be re-instated and quite cheaply IMHO.

More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Service_Force

Mine being E Coy 6/7 Queen's (V)

Arc
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 11:39
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Originally Posted by Rwy in Sight View Post
,

I know one NATO army (in a country confronted by another NATO country recently in the news due to some political events) that can lead the way on teaching how to keep thousands of young recruits occupied just be cleaning, painting and providing hospitality service to officers. It is hard to describe how innovative are the officers of that Air Force and Army to create jobs just not to let recruit relax.
I know the forces that you are thinking of and even though national service is at the heart of every stout Turk, from my experience there a while back neither the Air Force nor the Navy allowed conscripts (who serve for 12 months) to do anything remotely technical. Most end up sweeping hangar floors, guarding, being abused, being exploited in local businesses...I could go on.

Meanwhile the Turkish Army consists of 75% conscripts, yet they (now) do very little fighting. There are no conscripts deployed in northern Syria as part of OP Euphrates Shield, meaning that regular training cadres have been combed for regular personnel to serve on the front line. Apparently.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 15:43
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Or at school? We had an armoury with about 250 SMLE from WW1 and later WW2 and also some new ones. We also had a couple of dozen Bren. In the attic the ammunition was stored above a dormitory - went in once - 25,000 rounds of .303 ball were stored there in ammo boxes.
So was that you up on the roof in the final scene of If P-N ?
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 15:49
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Originally Posted by Wander00 View Post
PN -we must have trained at the same place and attended similar schools. Did you have Primary glider as well|?
And a 25 pounder. The glider petrified me which is probably why I pushed for nav.

PS, range firing was probably what started my hearing loss. While the .22 range was a standard brick and sand affair the full bore range was in a quarry. Good for absorbing bullets but without ear protection bl**dy loud.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 15:53
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Whenurhappy, I guess that could have been similar to the Iranian system. We watched the night guard being deployed around the airfield. Long line of troops being marched along the surrounding berm. Every 20 yards of so a man would take post. Yu need a lot of manpower to guard a 7 mile perimeter. I would hazard a guess that it wasn't 2 hours on and 4 off either.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 18:43
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Government would have to conscript men and women in equal numbers now.

Infantry 50% female.... that would be amusing.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 19:22
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Infantry 50% female.... that would be amusing.
With some of the women I know, not amusing; terrifying.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 19:35
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We still have conscription in Denmark and all able bodied men must turn up after their 18th birthday. Not a lot of people has been called up involuntarily though, most of the needed positions are filled by volunteers. Only men are called up, but both women and men can volunteer.
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 07:16
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Herod is right - women are a lot tougher than men............ no mercy
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 09:10
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We also had a naval gun in the playground, sorry "quad", it was a grammar school after all) and the test for the Naval Section was to see how many "rounds" could be loosed off at a bus as it went down the Kenton Road
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 10:00
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Whenurhappy, I guess that could have been similar to the Iranian system. We watched the night guard being deployed around the airfield. Long line of troops being marched along the surrounding berm. Every 20 yards of so a man would take post. Yu need a lot of manpower to guard a 7 mile perimeter. I would hazard a guess that it wasn't 2 hours on and 4 off either.
P-N.

I escorted a VVSO several years ago to the Gallipoli Commemorations in Turkey. Every 30 yardsalong the roads on the peninsular, there were soldiers and Gendarmerie outwards-facing looking for baddies. We even had one doing a bit of Urban Surfing on the roof of our VIP transport (Thank Heavens there are no low bridges). At one of the venues, there was a wall of soldiers - some slinging .5" Barrett rifles, surrounding the VIP group, with bodyguards carrying portable bulletproof panels. Which was a bit silly, as the Gallipoli peninsular is largely unchanged since 1915, and is very remote - with only one road into/out of it, plus two ferries. In order words, easy to police.

But I s'pose if you have conscripts, use them...
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 10:31
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CENTO TACEVAL at Diyarbakir in mid-1970s, RAF S/L mentions casually to Turkish DISTAFF that he had found a guard asleep and woken him up. Turks identify guard, give him a field court martial, put him against the wall and shoot him. S/L sent home in shock at result of his offhand remark.

Widespread rumour was that base commander had an allowance of 5 conscripts a year to keep them on their toes.

I went as an observer the next year - which was the last before CENTO was dissolved - but that's another story.
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