Historic Overweight C130 Incident
Wasn't there also a GW1 Mk1 Bomb tails v Mk2 tails incident - the Muppets didn't have a weight for the Mk2 so they used the Mk 1 weight - the Mk2 weighed considerably more. I remember flying with the Captain Rick P**** who told me that they had never flown @ 155/175000lbs before and just thought it was normal.
Of course, I might be mixing stories as a lot of brain cells have died since then....
Of course, I might be mixing stories as a lot of brain cells have died since then....
I recall an incident a Laarbruch in the early 70's when the captain of a Belfast returning a squadron from detachment asked for the load to be checked as he could not make his planned altitude on the way back. This revealed that all the equipment being moved was on the manifest except the 5 or 6 S type trolleys that it was loaded on.
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I recall an incident a Laarbruch in the early 70's when the captain of a Belfast returning a squadron from detachment asked for the load to be checked as he could not make his planned altitude on the way back. This revealed that all the equipment being moved was on the manifest except the 5 or 6 S type trolleys that it was loaded on.
Avoid imitations
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I once had the opposite problem (so did everyone else on the task). We were on a multi-aircraft Cold War exercise. The squadron task was to fly underslung loads from one field location to another, by night. The loads were a number of Rapier ground to air missiles in transit cases. These loads were classified as "cleared loads" which meant that JATE had carried out flight trials and the weights, rigging details, maximum flight speeds etc. were laid down in the military helicopter underslung loads manual so we planned our (reduced) fuel loads accordingly.
That night there was a strong wind blowing, against us on the load carrying leg. About 45 to 50 kts at our flight altitude of about 1,000 feet agl. Not normally an issue, except one had to bear in mind that the Puma was normally short of fuel before takeoff even with full tanks!
This shouldn't have been a problem; it was all planned for. However, when we picked up the loads it was noted from the collective pitch used to hover with them hanging underneath that they were much lighter than notified. Because the loads were so light they wouldn't fly above about 55 kts before becoming totally unstable and swinging very violently, so 55 kts IAS it had to be; not 90 as planned for! Cue a long night stream of half a dozen Pumas trogging along into wind but making very little headway. I watched two of the formation chicken out due to fuel shortage on sighting someone's NATO "T" down below. Being braver and probably more stupid than I am now, in view of the perceived value and military sensitivity of the load, I carried on and got the load to intended destination with both fuel low level lights on.
A later investigation discovered that the Army hadn't actually put any missiles in the boxes. They should have ballasted the boxes with sandbags to make up the equivalent weight but didn't bother. I nearly bust my backside for a few empty boxes!
That night there was a strong wind blowing, against us on the load carrying leg. About 45 to 50 kts at our flight altitude of about 1,000 feet agl. Not normally an issue, except one had to bear in mind that the Puma was normally short of fuel before takeoff even with full tanks!
This shouldn't have been a problem; it was all planned for. However, when we picked up the loads it was noted from the collective pitch used to hover with them hanging underneath that they were much lighter than notified. Because the loads were so light they wouldn't fly above about 55 kts before becoming totally unstable and swinging very violently, so 55 kts IAS it had to be; not 90 as planned for! Cue a long night stream of half a dozen Pumas trogging along into wind but making very little headway. I watched two of the formation chicken out due to fuel shortage on sighting someone's NATO "T" down below. Being braver and probably more stupid than I am now, in view of the perceived value and military sensitivity of the load, I carried on and got the load to intended destination with both fuel low level lights on.
A later investigation discovered that the Army hadn't actually put any missiles in the boxes. They should have ballasted the boxes with sandbags to make up the equivalent weight but didn't bother. I nearly bust my backside for a few empty boxes!
Borneo Dec 1963
The Army made a booking for 7 REs and hand tools to be taken to a strip upcountry, the load is suitable for a Twin Pioneer, so it is duly tasked. The load arrives at Brunei in a 4 ton truck, and turns out to be 10 pax plus compressors, pneumatic drills, chain saws, jerrycans of petrol etc. The load is checked and found to be 3 times the payload available on that route. Captain info's young RE officer of the problem. The RE knows that there are 14 seats in the TwinPin so can not see a problem. Captain explains that with weight of the aircraft and crew and round trip fuel that payload is what it is. The RE has the answer to that problem. " Only take fuel for the inbound leg and refuel when you get there." Captain explains that there is no fuel at destination. RE replies," Put it in jerrycans and take it with you!" Crew dissolve into fits of laughter and RE Sgt says " Excuse me Sir, could I have a word".
The Army made a booking for 7 REs and hand tools to be taken to a strip upcountry, the load is suitable for a Twin Pioneer, so it is duly tasked. The load arrives at Brunei in a 4 ton truck, and turns out to be 10 pax plus compressors, pneumatic drills, chain saws, jerrycans of petrol etc. The load is checked and found to be 3 times the payload available on that route. Captain info's young RE officer of the problem. The RE knows that there are 14 seats in the TwinPin so can not see a problem. Captain explains that with weight of the aircraft and crew and round trip fuel that payload is what it is. The RE has the answer to that problem. " Only take fuel for the inbound leg and refuel when you get there." Captain explains that there is no fuel at destination. RE replies," Put it in jerrycans and take it with you!" Crew dissolve into fits of laughter and RE Sgt says " Excuse me Sir, could I have a word".
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Four Turbo - AOC did not wish to authorise MOS at home base but deemed it ok to have a swim out of Gib. Spent harrowing minutes waiting to run out of concrete at 175K AUW! 2 internal tanks at 7.5K each gave another 15K of fuel.
Then had 4 internals for the long range trips out of ASI. Lurched off the runway and then ended up at 2000ft above the S Atlantic at the bottom of the toboggan.
Happy days as you say!!
Then had 4 internals for the long range trips out of ASI. Lurched off the runway and then ended up at 2000ft above the S Atlantic at the bottom of the toboggan.
Happy days as you say!!
I carried 138 Rice Pickers plus our crew of 5 in an A Model Chinook....Vietnamese rice farmers are short and skinny ....most with the black pajamas and bare feet. The old girl would have not have gone far if we had lost an engine!
The loading technique was Troop seats folded...pack the cabin full...keep the Ramp level....load it to capacity...taxi forward and jam on the brakes and raise the Ramp.
HSE folks would have had conniption fits!
The loading technique was Troop seats folded...pack the cabin full...keep the Ramp level....load it to capacity...taxi forward and jam on the brakes and raise the Ramp.
HSE folks would have had conniption fits!
Husband, wife and 5 kids in a Birdog.
The Opportunity to Make History: Vietnam War Hero?s Flight to Freedom Remembered | Naval Historical Foundation
Chinooks were first used in combat in 1965 during the Vietnam conflict. During the last days of the war, one Chinook is reported to have carried 147 refugees in a single lift.
The Opportunity to Make History: Vietnam War Hero?s Flight to Freedom Remembered | Naval Historical Foundation
Chinooks were first used in combat in 1965 during the Vietnam conflict. During the last days of the war, one Chinook is reported to have carried 147 refugees in a single lift.
Operation Solomon anyone?
Shots of the 747s, but not `the one' as far as I can see.
1089 on board.
Wasn't there a C-5 that carried a huge number of vietnamese during the war?
Shots of the 747s, but not `the one' as far as I can see.
1089 on board.
Wasn't there a C-5 that carried a huge number of vietnamese during the war?
Its not just our army colleagues who cause problems.
I had a DAMO at AKT who sent an ASMA ( Stone age email ) message to Gp Capt Movements at HQ 2 Group to complain about the AARC who insisted on loading 30 tonnes of "totally unnecessary" fuel on a Tristar, going to UK, and preventing him from loading any freight. This was on a Tanker Trail!!
He then compounded his problems by sending a second ASMA message to the Gp Capt Movements about the "stupidity" of the AARC who did not know that there were 2.2 kg in a lb.!!
However, when I went back a month later he did apologise and buy me a beer.
I had a DAMO at AKT who sent an ASMA ( Stone age email ) message to Gp Capt Movements at HQ 2 Group to complain about the AARC who insisted on loading 30 tonnes of "totally unnecessary" fuel on a Tristar, going to UK, and preventing him from loading any freight. This was on a Tanker Trail!!
He then compounded his problems by sending a second ASMA message to the Gp Capt Movements about the "stupidity" of the AARC who did not know that there were 2.2 kg in a lb.!!
However, when I went back a month later he did apologise and buy me a beer.
Dagama. How is it AOC was able to risk us without any complaint from our bosses? (Or not one that I heard). I asked and was told to shut up and get on with it (MOS out of Gib but not Lyneham). Furthermore MOS out of base would have enabled us direct Dakar some days without dicing with death over Algeciras Bay. Happy days.
Last edited by Four Turbo; 25th Jan 2017 at 12:19. Reason: Meaning
I carried 138 Rice Pickers plus our crew of 5 in an A Model Chinook....Vietnamese rice farmers are short and skinny ....most with the black pajamas and bare feet. The old girl would have not have gone far if we had lost an engine!
The loading technique was Troop seats folded...pack the cabin full...keep the Ramp level....load it to capacity...taxi forward and jam on the brakes and raise the Ramp.
HSE folks would have had conniption fits!
The loading technique was Troop seats folded...pack the cabin full...keep the Ramp level....load it to capacity...taxi forward and jam on the brakes and raise the Ramp.
HSE folks would have had conniption fits!
