RAF Halton to close
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tennessee - Smoky Mountains
Age: 55
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
GBP500M?
That's insane. With all the military camps closing, many of them ex-RAF to boot, I can't help feeling that this is a gold-plated solution to a non-problem.
Half a billion pounds? To implement basic training and professional development on an existing station that already does the same basic functions?
It would be cheaper to take say Dishforth, completely level it (say 10M) and build a spanking new camp (say another 100M).
Or completely gut Scampton and rebuild it.
Half a billion pounds? Really???
That's insane. With all the military camps closing, many of them ex-RAF to boot, I can't help feeling that this is a gold-plated solution to a non-problem.
Half a billion pounds? To implement basic training and professional development on an existing station that already does the same basic functions?
It would be cheaper to take say Dishforth, completely level it (say 10M) and build a spanking new camp (say another 100M).
Or completely gut Scampton and rebuild it.
Half a billion pounds? Really???
Ah, more short term expediency no doubt.
Someone will have achieved (allegedly) a nice little promotion on the back of these cost savings. The developers (probably `Defence Consultants` in another life - again allegedly) will make a nice little profit when the MoD throws money back at restructuring the remaining locations later. In the meantime the perpetrators of these wonderful `save to spend` schemes will have moved onwards and upwards and will probably be commuting between Whitehall offices and country estates using HS2, 3 or 4.
Or perhaps I am just being a bit cynical?
Someone will have achieved (allegedly) a nice little promotion on the back of these cost savings. The developers (probably `Defence Consultants` in another life - again allegedly) will make a nice little profit when the MoD throws money back at restructuring the remaining locations later. In the meantime the perpetrators of these wonderful `save to spend` schemes will have moved onwards and upwards and will probably be commuting between Whitehall offices and country estates using HS2, 3 or 4.
Or perhaps I am just being a bit cynical?
£300-£400M is quite plausible.
Worthy Down cost £250M and that contract was awarded over 5 years ago: Worthy Down Barracks | Garrisons | Winchester-Garrison
Lyneham cost £230M and that was just the REME piece: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...army-engineers
£42M for a single hangar for A400Ms: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...f-brize-norton
£70M to build 322 families quarters: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/w...es-at-tidworth
£25M for demolition and then £142M for construction of the support building for F35 at Marham: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...-edge-aircraft
£20M to resurface just one runway at Valley: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-at-raf-valley
16x SLAM Blocks costs £77M at Brize (that would be roughly the amount needed at Cranwell): https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ic__Final_.pdf
£18M to renovate and build a new annex for 51 Sqn and RJ: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/h...raf-waddington
Welcome to the world of defence infrastructure and so-called 'value for money'.
LJ
Worthy Down cost £250M and that contract was awarded over 5 years ago: Worthy Down Barracks | Garrisons | Winchester-Garrison
Lyneham cost £230M and that was just the REME piece: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...army-engineers
£42M for a single hangar for A400Ms: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...f-brize-norton
£70M to build 322 families quarters: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/w...es-at-tidworth
£25M for demolition and then £142M for construction of the support building for F35 at Marham: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...-edge-aircraft
£20M to resurface just one runway at Valley: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-at-raf-valley
16x SLAM Blocks costs £77M at Brize (that would be roughly the amount needed at Cranwell): https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ic__Final_.pdf
£18M to renovate and build a new annex for 51 Sqn and RJ: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/h...raf-waddington
Welcome to the world of defence infrastructure and so-called 'value for money'.
LJ
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tennessee - Smoky Mountains
Age: 55
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It's taking the piss, quite frankly.
42M for a shed?
This is being vastly overthought. A military barracks is not a complex build. A series of one or two story buildings to standard designs. If they can build 322 houses for GBP70M, I rest my case.
Notwithstanding the option of rebuilding Scampton.
42M for a shed?
This is being vastly overthought. A military barracks is not a complex build. A series of one or two story buildings to standard designs. If they can build 322 houses for GBP70M, I rest my case.
Notwithstanding the option of rebuilding Scampton.
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,371
Received 110 Likes
on
77 Posts
" Half a billion pounds? "
Well in that case, with the above figure in mind, I am sure the cost of the closing down party for all those who were incarcerated in the place will have been included in the budget....
Well in that case, with the above figure in mind, I am sure the cost of the closing down party for all those who were incarcerated in the place will have been included in the budget....
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Out in the desert
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
£300-£400M is quite plausible.
Worthy Down cost £250M and that contract was awarded over 5 years ago: Worthy Down Barracks | Garrisons | Winchester-Garrison
Lyneham cost £230M and that was just the REME piece: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...army-engineers
£42M for a single hangar for A400Ms: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...f-brize-norton
£70M to build 322 families quarters: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/w...es-at-tidworth
£25M for demolition and then £142M for construction of the support building for F35 at Marham: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...-edge-aircraft
£20M to resurface just one runway at Valley: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-at-raf-valley
16x SLAM Blocks costs £77M at Brize (that would be roughly the amount needed at Cranwell): https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ic__Final_.pdf
£18M to renovate and build a new annex for 51 Sqn and RJ: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/h...raf-waddington
Welcome to the world of defence infrastructure and so-called 'value for money'.
LJ
Worthy Down cost £250M and that contract was awarded over 5 years ago: Worthy Down Barracks | Garrisons | Winchester-Garrison
Lyneham cost £230M and that was just the REME piece: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...army-engineers
£42M for a single hangar for A400Ms: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...f-brize-norton
£70M to build 322 families quarters: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/w...es-at-tidworth
£25M for demolition and then £142M for construction of the support building for F35 at Marham: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...-edge-aircraft
£20M to resurface just one runway at Valley: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-at-raf-valley
16x SLAM Blocks costs £77M at Brize (that would be roughly the amount needed at Cranwell): https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ic__Final_.pdf
£18M to renovate and build a new annex for 51 Sqn and RJ: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/h...raf-waddington
Welcome to the world of defence infrastructure and so-called 'value for money'.
LJ
HQ
Not recent but in 1997 a type 4 cost approx 39,000GBP to build (assuming MOD owned land etc already).
So, for project above, 322 x SFA for 70M = 217k per house.
Inflation? 'Accounting'?
Regards
Batco
Not recent but in 1997 a type 4 cost approx 39,000GBP to build (assuming MOD owned land etc already).
So, for project above, 322 x SFA for 70M = 217k per house.
Inflation? 'Accounting'?
Regards
Batco
Back in 1983, I was told that a cost assessment had been conducted, concerning the building of MQs at Ascension.
It was rejected due to the cost of £55K per unit. "How much?", asked someone who'd been involved.
"£55K"
"Well, that's interesting, because the actual figure we'd identified was £35K!"
Even then, there was some blatant nest-feathering going on, it would seem...
It was rejected due to the cost of £55K per unit. "How much?", asked someone who'd been involved.
"£55K"
"Well, that's interesting, because the actual figure we'd identified was £35K!"
Even then, there was some blatant nest-feathering going on, it would seem...
Halton - Rothschilds - so many different stories maybe someone should get the original documents out of the archives. No doubt the Rothschilds will have their copies to hand
Also applies to Odiham by the way;if ever MoD cease to 'need it' the land must be handed back to the original landowners.
Whopity/Chevvron - my understanding too (and Wyton btw) but would seem a good time for someone to check. 25 years ago there was an investment appraisal for Wyton that included ISTR several million pounds from selling off the airfield. AOC not impressed when Staish and I raised this issue, and suggested the appraisal was flawed
Halton House
This has been answered many times before. This post by LJ 3 Oct 16;
That's an utter myth. On Alfred de Rothschild’s death in January 1918, his nephew Lionel inherited Halton House and it’s lands. The Air Board were keen to purchase the estate as an officer cadet college for the nacent Royal Air Force which had been formed on 1 April from an amalgamation of the Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Naval Air Service. Fortunately, Lionel was a willing seller, as the house was the distasteful equivalent of 'Beckingham Palace' in the 1900s and the estate including Halton House was purchased by the War Office in 1919 for £112,000 FREEHOLD. The was about a quarter of the probate value of the estate; clearly a bargain for the War Office (now MOD).
That's an utter myth. On Alfred de Rothschild’s death in January 1918, his nephew Lionel inherited Halton House and it’s lands. The Air Board were keen to purchase the estate as an officer cadet college for the nacent Royal Air Force which had been formed on 1 April from an amalgamation of the Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Naval Air Service. Fortunately, Lionel was a willing seller, as the house was the distasteful equivalent of 'Beckingham Palace' in the 1900s and the estate including Halton House was purchased by the War Office in 1919 for £112,000 FREEHOLD. The was about a quarter of the probate value of the estate; clearly a bargain for the War Office (now MOD).
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aren't the workshops listed?
Recently the workshops have been evacuated because of safety/structural issues with the roof. Ironically I believe it's because of failings in the laticed and longspan roof. These were built in a unique way by Italian POWs in 1918, and why the building(s) is/are listed. But clearly not maintained properly.
As a private citizen the council would serve an enforcement notice if I let a listed building I was responsible for fall into disrepair and disuse. One rule for me, but another for HMG who can ignore this and sell up, allowing bulldozers to solve the problem? This I believe is/was the start of the 'excuse' to sell the site follwojng the airfield annohncement last June. Farbeit to suggest deliberate failure to maintain the site, giving the sale excuse, for that would be criminal. Lets settle for negligent then. Who's to blame?
On another point, Halton is the Deferred Facility safety site for nearby Chequers. If the PM needs security, Halton House is the first choice and its physical security reflects this. It's also used for press conferences such as POTUS visits. So can the Aylesbury Holiday Inn expect a booking in future?!
Emotional, yes. I was born at Halton, and so was my Mother, first ever birth at the former hospital in 1922. The history of the Halton estate and its contribution to UK defence is great and also historic and emotional. However this is about neither of those. This is about practicality, location, resources and why once sold, this site, close to London, with extensive possibilities, can never be rebought. Cash in the bank is all the bean counters of this generation understand.
Isn't it about time we heard the views of the Staish? Or is there a political silence in place.
As a private citizen the council would serve an enforcement notice if I let a listed building I was responsible for fall into disrepair and disuse. One rule for me, but another for HMG who can ignore this and sell up, allowing bulldozers to solve the problem? This I believe is/was the start of the 'excuse' to sell the site follwojng the airfield annohncement last June. Farbeit to suggest deliberate failure to maintain the site, giving the sale excuse, for that would be criminal. Lets settle for negligent then. Who's to blame?
On another point, Halton is the Deferred Facility safety site for nearby Chequers. If the PM needs security, Halton House is the first choice and its physical security reflects this. It's also used for press conferences such as POTUS visits. So can the Aylesbury Holiday Inn expect a booking in future?!
Emotional, yes. I was born at Halton, and so was my Mother, first ever birth at the former hospital in 1922. The history of the Halton estate and its contribution to UK defence is great and also historic and emotional. However this is about neither of those. This is about practicality, location, resources and why once sold, this site, close to London, with extensive possibilities, can never be rebought. Cash in the bank is all the bean counters of this generation understand.
Isn't it about time we heard the views of the Staish? Or is there a political silence in place.
On another point, Halton is the Deferred Facility safety site for nearby Chequers. If the PM needs security, Halton House is the first choice and its physical security reflects this.
While there are better qualified people than me on this site, if there is one thing that isn't secure it is Halton. Not one part of the estate is secure from people walking around.
OTOH, HQ Air is now better, 1 site especially. Least you can't just walk through all the buildings.
While there are better qualified people than me on this site, if there is one thing that isn't secure it is Halton. Not one part of the estate is secure from people walking around.
OTOH, HQ Air is now better, 1 site especially. Least you can't just walk through all the buildings.