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Chinook ZA672 crash in 1988

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Chinook ZA672 crash in 1988

Old 18th Nov 2016, 21:11
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Chinook ZA672 crash in 1988

Hi all!


For our new small museum (www.vdlgt.de) at the former RAF Gütersloh we are preparing an roll of honour for the Gütersloh pilots and crews that lost their lives during RAF times. Can anybody tell me the ranks and names of the crew of Chinook HC.1 ZA672/BH, which lost their lives in the tragic accident during ILA´88 at Hannover-Lagenhagen on May 6th 1988?


Thank you very much for your help!


Pelomino
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 05:55
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Fg Off Philip Anthony BREWER 22
Fg Off James Stewart MCMENEMY 23
Sgt Glyn JONES 22 doi 25 May

They are commemorated at the Armed Forces Memorial Alrewas, St Clement Danes Church London and the Support Helicopter Memorial at Odiham

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Old 19th Nov 2016, 08:58
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Thank you very much, Old Duffer!
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 09:26
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Oh, Lord, all so young. What a tragedy.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 11:33
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A sad day for 18 Sqn. Phil was my neighbour in the Mess and Jim was one of those positively infectious characters. Not long before, he had waltzed into the bar having just walked away from a pretty nasty wire strike near Paderborn; "That's my one brush with death."

The memories fade but I recollect that the flying display crew (ZA 672 was for static) witnessed the whole event from their dispersal. There was some fantastic leadership from the aircraft commander, corralling all 18 Sqn personnel and bring them back home that same evening.

Looking back, the accident was undoubtedly avoidable and continues to provide an excellent lesson in Swiss Cheese. http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/m...0506_za672.pdf
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 16:30
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Originally Posted by MPN11
Oh, Lord, all so young. What a tragedy.
A truly horrific accident.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 16:46
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A truly horrific accident.
Yes indeed ... in a bloody taxying accudent, at low speed. How awful.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 17:23
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Without wishing to trivialise a tragic accident. Do note that ( when I left anyway) taxiing time wasn't counted in your Military flying logbook.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 23:08
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The RAF have lost quite a few Chinooks, but this must indeed be one of the most horrific accidents. It all goes to show the amount of energy in the transmission and rotors of a stationary helo, especially the chinook. Almost unbelievable that, despite being marshalled, they hit the walkway.

I guess the fire was made so much worse with the upright fuselage acting as a chimney. One wonders how the pilot managed to survive if it took 35 min to put it out.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 16:43
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I recently met a (now rather old) German civilian who witnessed this accident from close quarters. I had heard of it before, but just now read the BOI.

My main thoughts/questions are:
- salient lesson to all, in the huge inertia possessed in heavy helo (esp. Chinook) turbine/transmission systems
- the old BOI system and its focus on blame seems rather old-fashioned and out of step with current notions of safety best practice in aviation - I'm glad it has been modernised
- the Stn Cdr proposed to take a sympathetic line with the Captain, however he was overruled. Does anyone know what became of him? Did he recover fully from his injuries?

Lastly, and most importantly, what a terribly sad loss of young life. May they rest in peace.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 16:54
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The captain had yet another lucky escape when he was involved in a microlight accident although he was seriously injured.
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 06:08
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I taxied in a -47 at Hannover several years later and got an abysmal service. We were finally signalled to stop and a new marshaller arrived to complete the job. We eventually shut down and the ‘new’ marshaller appeared next to the cockpit window and apologised saying that the first guy had been sent for retraining. ‘Some of us have long memories’ he noted....
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 09:11
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Remember this awful occasion to well. I was a crewman on 230 who, along with my captain WG, was tasked to take senior officers from Gutersloh direct to Hannover just after the tragedy unfolded. We were met by a ground handler who tried to marshal us into a very tight parking slot to which I refused and we stopped well short. Subsequently, having paced the parking slot it was the right decision. A very sad note in the history of RAF Gutersloh

Last edited by Q-SKI; 14th Oct 2020 at 09:53. Reason: Typo
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Old 3rd Sep 2022, 20:10
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Originally Posted by KeyPilot
I recently met a (now rather old) German civilian who witnessed this accident from close quarters. I had heard of it before, but just now read the BOI.

My main thoughts/questions are:
- salient lesson to all, in the huge inertia possessed in heavy helo (esp. Chinook) turbine/transmission systems
- the old BOI system and its focus on blame seems rather old-fashioned and out of step with current notions of safety best practice in aviation - I'm glad it has been modernised
- the Stn Cdr proposed to take a sympathetic line with the Captain, however he was overruled. Does anyone know what became of him? Did he recover fully from his injuries?

Lastly, and most importantly, what a terribly sad loss of young life. May they rest in peace.
- There were 3 marshallers out front plus a crewman. The polaroid sunglasses they wore (they were looking into the sinking sun at the time) made it almost impossible to clearly see the LH side of the rotor disc. The front disc actually passed below the walkway but about a metre into it. Thus, the marshallers and crew looking out the LH side probably thought all was clear. The rear rotor (higher than front) then hit and all hell broke loose. The Captain managed to stay conscious and despite only having use of his right hand (due to burning left side) freed himself of the harness and jettisoned the RH pilots door - although it did need a firm smack with his elbow. He then fell onto the remains of the airbridge which then collapsed and he fell a further 20' onto burning oil. Fortunately the German RFFS were spot on and banged him full of morphine and chucked water over the burning bits. After a few weeks in the burns unit at Hannover and a stay in the military hospital at Hameln the Captain was posted to HSU while the BOI went on. He left in Feb 89 (Short Service time up) got CAA FW and rotary licences and flew Citation + Helos for a millionaire in S Ireland, then was trial pilot at Police unit in Northumbria, becoming Chief Pilot / TRE/TRI at the largest Unit outside of the Met - NEASU - flying police AS355, 135 and BN2 Islander. After 14 yrs was headhunted to start air ambulance operations in Northumbria, Cumbria and Teesside flying BO105, 355, and 365N. Subsequently trained police pilots and crews in the UAE on Bell 412 and then spent 6 yrs setting up AOC operation on the Black Sea dealing in oil and gas using Bell 429, AW139 and H155s. Now happily retired, but always remembering the lovely friends he lost that day.
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Old 3rd Sep 2022, 20:18
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Engineering bodge in the T tail attachment. Dyn Aero had a set of old horizontal tails to fit onto the new model fin, so bodged a fit. The part should have lasted 2000 hrs and was only 42 hrs when it snapped. AC was at 800' at the time. 5 years of litigation ensued with every court finding 100% for the claimants. On final day when damages were awarded, Dyn Aero declared bankruptcy. It was found that they had spent the previous 4 years breaking the company up and funnelling monies elsewhere. Under French law the state had prior claim on what was left.

Note Dyn Aero had 3 tails snap off, but as those accidents were due to engine failure and stalling, the tail attachments were thought to have failed due to impact damage, whereas in retrospect it would appear that they failed because of this same bodge mod.
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Old 3rd Sep 2022, 23:13
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This tragedy happened before I joined the rotary world.

Marshaller(s) or not, taxiing a helicopter into a solid structure in peacetime/daylight should be totally avoidable. Clearly not a deliberate act, but no wonder the pilot was found culpable!
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Old 3rd Sep 2022, 23:29
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Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger
A sad day for 18 Sqn. Phil was my neighbour in the Mess and Jim was one of those positively infectious characters. Not long before, he had waltzed into the bar having just walked away from a pretty nasty wire strike near Paderborn; "That's my one brush with death."

The memories fade but I recollect that the flying display crew (ZA 672 was for static) witnessed the whole event from their dispersal. There was some fantastic leadership from the aircraft commander, corralling all 18 Sqn personnel and bring them back home that same evening.

Looking back, the accident was undoubtedly avoidable and continues to provide an excellent lesson in Swiss Cheese. http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/m...0506_za672.pdf
I did see the wirestrike aircraft as was meant to be on the Cat 3 team from 431 that came up to Gutesloh to reskin the airframe as it had huge gashes on one side. I also saw the Hanover hull on its recovery to Bruggen. I had heard at the time one aircrew killed in the latter had been flying the former. Had a UH60 out in Basrah that had a rotor strike against one of the lightning stanchions during my time there. We were picking up bits of carbon for days afterwards. The crew had declined RAF marshallers. They were not given the opportunity next time they requested to come in. That was interesting having 3 to handle by myself.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 18:27
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Taxi into something in the broad daylight......it can be done with the Marshaler standing by the Light Pole.

The forward blades chopped the wooden pole off about six inches above his outstretched arm!

It happened at Tay Ninh Airfield in Vietnam.....the marshaler....Crew Chief of the Aircraft. involved was busy getting dirt out of his eyes.....and was momentarily distracted....and the Pilot did not realize it.

It makes for one hell of a story when we have unit reunions.

The Pilot is very short....and the Crew Chief is very tall.....hearing the yarn from the two perspectives is especially entertaining.

Fortunately no one was hurt....but the Crew Chief probably needed a change of underwear.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 20:15
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a stay in the military hospital at Hameln
No BMH at Hameln. Must have been Rinteln.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 23:48
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Yes I have suffered twice at the hands of BMH Rinteln, and my wife has given birth there once.
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